h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29678989

Wonder if "they'll" name and shame 'em or just slap they're hands as they do with any bad person now-a-days

These sick little people should be jailed. They are bullies who would not dare to state their opinions face to face to the ones they abuse And all their IT goods should be confiscated and sold for charity

Okay, so this is not what I expected it to be. I thought the original post would be by 2Legs, and it would be a thread about cleaners such as Nighthoover. I.e. a chat forum about cleaners.

I did not mean to do that

I was going to say when I saw it this morning I was expecting it to have something to do with 2 legs, didn't post though as I've not been here that long don't know 2 legs that well and so therefore didn't know how me posting that would go down with him

2legs is cool, Towelshop. I hope he will be here any minute now.

You called? - seriously.... no ones ever yet managed to post anything to offend me... or otherwise that went down badly... trust me... I'm impervious to such

I must admit... I first saw this... conversation thread, the other day... when it was only one new post.... and thought it might be someone posting on my personal space... to suggest something to me I can't help it... I really can't.... my life is just... odd err.... and before this thread is derailed... guess I oughta to go tlooky at the linky in the opening post... and see what its actually about (I guess the anti-trolling law thinggy, I heard about on the wireless (OK, radio), the otter day

Trolls are hardly new. What I wonder about is how much influence any one nation's government can bring to bear on trolls, which can be from anywhere on the planet.

None whatsoever.... Most governments or members thereof, don't seem to have the faintest idea of what, or how the internet works...

I am all for the law catching up with internet age, it has lagged somewhat, also for an attitude change, for a long time trolling or flaming is seen as part of the course of internet discourse and something you have to put up with because it is not 'real life'.

That said I haven't been able to find an awful lot of clarity on what someone might be sent to prison for and have some concerns about how in practise this is going to work.

This is good sound bite, as we don't have the resources to deal with the sheer number of people downloading images of child abuse so how is it going to be policed?

The lack of clarity of what is threshold for prosecution or complaint is a worry, and that those legislating have just caught on what lol does not fill me confidence.

On its own this will do nothing, it makes the government look like it doing something over which it has little control over and can not afford to police.

I am not against this increase in sentence, nor denying that there is an issue and I think we can look at any number of cases and go that is clearly abuse, harassment etc.

Equally we can look at others and it is not clear if it is offensive or abusive and mileage will vary on that, or what the intent was behind those words, what the person wrote and what you have read can be two different things.

Oh, it seems I hav a little bee in my bonnet about this sorry I am going on, even worse I am going to get coffee but I am not sure I have finished but I am parched

I agree with you peanut, I can't help feeling this will only be accessable to the rich and infamous your normal Joe blogs who lives down the road who's getting abused by some troll probably won't see justice.

So, lets take naming and shaming then and see where the lines are, or where we think they are.

In a recent case Brenda Leyland, was labelled a troll by pretty much every media outlet, for her messages about Kate and Gerry McCann. She was exposed and vilified, went on to commit suicide and even in death, the strapline is 'Brenda Leyland, the 'Twitter troll' found dead.

Ok hold up, Brenda Leyland doesn't appear to have written anything directly to the McCanns, she has written about them, she has written on a hashtag which means they can be easily found but nothing actually to them.
In this BBC article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-29501646

I am dumbfounded by this bit of analysis by Dr Arthur Cassidy, a psychologist who specialises in social media, said Mrs Leyland appeared to have a middle class upbringing which was unusual in trolling.

He said: "In this particular case, her whole repertoire of trolling is slightly different from those of well-seasoned trolls because of her uniqueness and the way she has done this.

"It would signify to me that she has been quite a novice at this."

Dr Cassidy said typically, trolls sought and enjoyed a response from their victims but that did not appear to have been the case here.'

No Dr Cassidy, she is not unique, nor a novice troll, because there is a huge difference here, or what should be, she appears to be expressing an opinion. It is a deeply unpleasant one to me, offensive to some and possibly distressing to the McCanns should they have ever read it.

But how casually we have strayed from what you could say was harassment or abusive had it been directed at the McCanns to having an unpleasant opinion and expressing it about them.

In this case labelling her as unique, or novice just to fit the narrative of the story. More disturbingly the overwhelming coverage and discussion this story demonstrated that very few people could tell where this line is drawn, or see that there was one to be drawn.

I agree.

This will surely have unintended consequences. Yes, some internet trolling needs to be curtailed. But it is far from an easily defined "crime". The pathetic boys involved in seriously threatening behavior under the banner of #gamergate are at one end of a wide spectrum. On the other end are people like Peanut describes who are voicing an opinion that some may find distasteful. In between are people like David Thorne ( http://www.27bslash6.com ), a professional troll. (Or this guy http://www.dontevenreply.com ) There are trolls and then there are trolls. Where DO you draw the line?

And what about those that will surely abuse this statute? This will be a useful tool for those wishing to quash voices of dissent or disagreement. Just remember how much trouble was caused and how many lives were destroyed by UK libel laws. (For more info http://www.senseaboutscience.org/pages/keep-libel-laws-out-of-science.html )

I just feel that it's too complicated an issue to be legislated. Heck, even "naming and shaming" transitions quickly to "doxxing". I don't have any quick fixes to suggest, and I doubt anyone else does. About the best we can do is to employ armies of workers for active moderation. (Here's an article on the subject I've been meaning to read today. http://www.wired.com/2014/10/content-moderation/ )



I'm fairly sure most of their stories are just that, stories. David Thorne admitted to creating a wide spread internet hoax regarding McDonalds. http://www.news.com.au/technology/prankster-david-thorne-behind-mcdonalds-hoax/story-e6frfro0-1225786544355 He also rather infamously played to character by seriously alienating one of his biggest fan bases, reddit. http://www.urlesque.com/2010/11/12/david-thorne-reddit-jerk/

I can remember more innocent days, when sites thought they could control trolls by banning them "for life," e.g. Arpeggio. There are so many more sites now, though, that someone who is banned from one site can just find others to go to.

FB is even worse... You can get blocked by the Administrators
of any given thread for simply not being in the spirit of the
group (as judged by their own Moderators) but you are still
free to join other groups until your actions get the attention
of the big FB cheeses. You gotta be really mad, bad or evil
to draw that kind of attention. The FBI and the NSA will be
onto you well before the FB Police hear about your indelicate
behaviours.

~jwf~

Facebook has big cheeses?

[ for the fondue pot.]

Only the African Christian Church has big Cheesus, the rest are only pale imitations.

big cheeses?! lettuce apeaze the cheese

Amen....and F.M.

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