h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

leaving all the rest that need aced! was what the last sentence should've been!

"so what does that say about "your" people??"
Again with the 'us versus them' situation. This attitude doesn't help.

Also, I understood a little about what the Guide was all about before I was even greeted by an Ace; That's what the introductory messages are for. I may only speak for myself here, but I read the welcome messages, and went on the tour before signing up. By the time I'd setup my Space with some content, I already knew the site was a bit special.

Here endeth the subscription.
*Unsubscribe*

*perceive* LM

Can't help judging to some extent, even if you try not to. But I agree the site should have an egalitarian spirit, and it does sadden me when people here are intolerant, rude or elitist.

Noggin

Noggin

for correcting my spelling...my brains gone to sleep

Saturnine

So i have nothing to worry about if i'm good & intelligent!
So i have something to worry about if i'm NOT intelligent!!!!!!

Well excuse me for not having the correct knowledge or degrees!! But that doesn't make me a bad person!
I AM willing to learn....but then again, seeing your attitude, i really wouldn't want to end up as sour as you....so i'll remain thick thanks!!

Ref: Posting 71


>Must I reiterate everything I have said in other threads?<

Definitely not... I've read what you've been writing in the other threads and that's why i made the comments i've made...?!


>Yes, I know Telewest know about the problem of external links in e-mail. They've tried to put a stop to this, and external sites (not on allowed domains, such as bbc.co.uk) are now blocked.

However I'm not sure they realise that other non digibox BBC sites are accessible due to a loophole. Don't expect me to go over what can be found elsewhere on the site. Go look for it yourself. Ie: In the original thread.<

Oh, you're not sure now?!... A tad different from your original argument isn't it?!...

>"You made me so proud of being an ACE that now i'm having second thoughts about keeping the darn badge"

I'm sorry about that. My views do not reflect those of the BBC or h2g2 in any way, including those of any of h2g2's volunteer groups.

To be an ACE and a Guru is to be helpful to people in need of help where you are available to give it. I'm not sure in the volunteer code of conduct, you have to give up your right to have opinions and thoughts -- opinions I might add, that were only brought into the current debate by those who remember the last similar, but differing debate.<

Obviously you haven't realised yet what's wrong with the way you're going about the whole affair... Having an opinion is no problem whatsoever but being judgemental and patronising towards a group of h2g2 users is wrong for any Official Volunteers i would think...


>If you were an h2g2 newbie I'd gladly help you out on site without prejudice, and if you were in need of technical assistance at all I'd give you some advice as a guru.<

... I'll accept that...

>Cross me later, and I'm not a nice person at all. I /am/ human, and the 'nice as pie' switch doesn't remain on all the time.<

... Unfortunately _that_ might not always be a good excuse as we're supposed to be friendly etc...

[Remind me how that part is related to the ex-LDers situation by the way?!...]


>However originally the idea of the 'debate' was not to show how bad and evil the ex-LD community are, and "Quick, let's get them off the site" -- It was to expose the fact that the access method is less than proper, and to alert its current users of this fact, so that they may discontinue its usage and remain able to defend themselves if and when Telewest decide to cut off the access and maybe charge users for using it without desire to at least use their official ISP, Blueyonder.<

That's still going on with justifications about what you intend to do... Heard it before no need to repeat it again...


>By doing this, anyone who once used that mode of access is paying Telewest back for any illegal bandwidth stolen.<

And of course, that's solely based on the assumption that Telewest don't know about it _already_ and haven't _already_ worked out how to make sure they are not losing any money in the process... And like for any allegations being unproved, your labelling of one group of users is on the borderline of defamation... Which is a breach of the <./>HouseRules</.> i believe...


>"So, as i said earlier, Saturnine and Aka do tell Telewest if you must... No big deal..."

You're right. It isn't. As has been said before (but please look for the original thread), we are not trying to purge Telewest users off the site; We have no control over Telewest's actions. We are just informing them of what is happening in a situation we think they ought to know about.<

I reserve the right to be sceptical on that one...

And why this thing about me reading the original thread?!... I _have_ read the darn thread... Hence my posting to you...


>If they go and buy more servers to hold more bandwidth, to compensate for the amount of data transfer being requested, and post a nice friendly link to h2g2 in its Interactive Menu, that's fine. But since that is not already the case, one has to wonder -- Do they really want non digibox sites to be accessed? I mean, they've already cut off external access to sites like google.com, yahoo.com etc. To them, looking at the server logs, it may just seem that BBCi's small, toned down News and Weather site has become immensely popular.<

Oh we're back to h2g2 when we both know that the link would be to the BBCi sites in the first place?!... Interesting slip of the tongue/keyboard methinks...

As i said before in my reply to you, i have my own theory about why Telewest are letting the digibox users go through the email loophole... And at the end of the day, contrary to your allegations, they [Telewest] are not losing any money, far from it...



>"Then, after you've done that, we might have a look at those companies losing money with their staff members using h2g2 while at work yeah?!... After all principles are principles and all that"

That is entirely different. The companies with Internet Access merely ask you not to use non-work-oriented sites at work......<


Oh no it's not... They're have been growing concerns about the use of the Net during working hours by members of staff... Do i need to get a link or two for you to see that?!.. If you're _that_ concerned about Telewest losing money [which they are not anyway] then you should have the same concern about all these poor companies losing a lot of money that way...


Oh and the bit about heavy traffic and all that... Err, I think Ben was right when mentioning about a few dozens at the time... _Not_ hundreds like you would like us to believe is it...


I'm also aware that the conversation has been kind of moved to the other thread but, some points have been made on this one and it is fair that those points should also be replied on here...

I won't be posting much more about this subject anyway as it would mean repeating what has already been said but, as i'm having a week off next err week, expect an entry from me on this issue...


Last point before i shut up: Would not it be more productive for the site to work _together_ in trying to make it sticky instead of creating another potential dangerous/divisive situation?!... Just a thought of course...

loup

I don't have time to catch up with the backlog, and my internet link would not let me post yesterday. Probably a good thing, because I was steaming with anger, as you can tell from the following which I drafted but could not post:



Post 72: I am just astonished that aKa missed the deep sarcasm in my statement that "There is obviously nothing agressive or hostile in that, and it has nothing to do with trying to exclude people from the site at all."


AKA then goes on to say: "Nobody is trying to say "I don't like X Group of people, let's get them banned"."


Since irony and sarcasm does not work here let me say it very very simply.

aka:

I

don't

believe

you.

I am in fact yikesing Post 72, since it so badly misrepresents my intention in post 70, that I find it deeply offensive. Or I would yikes it if my conection wasn't ropy as hell this morning.

Post 74: Sat you stress how generous you are being by giving away things you no longer want or need. I am glad you are starting to learn about generosity, but recycling your trash is not being generous, and neither is repaying favours. Being generous can, and frequently does cost, and can and frequently does hurt, which is why it is so much more comfortable to be selfish.

I would not describe the attempt to exclude digibox users as 'selfish' - I would characterise these actions as mean-spirited, bigoted and excluding. But that's just my opinion.

I am sorry if I am misrepresenting or offending any individual - I do not have the access to read the backlog in detail until the w/e.

B

I don't understand the argument at all could someone please expalin it to me bit by bit in layman's terms....I don't actually want to know so I can argue because I don't like confrontation I would like to know so I can try and help if I may?

So we can all get along and have andtogether

Well, I'll try Luthenia.

Firstly, there are actually two arguments going on here.

The first is about the route by which the site is accessed. Most people access the site by the conventional PC, ISP route, but there are some who access it via Telewest digiboxes, which is apparently a misuse of the service provided by Telewest.

The second, related, issue is that Telewest used to run a chat site, but closed it down, and a lot of digibox users migrated to h2g2, which they now use as a chat site. Some researchers believe that this is changing the spirit of h2g2 in a negative way; the questions that arise are about whether this matters, and what the community as a whole should or should not be doing to integrate this group into the wider community and its online customs.

Noggin

Ach, round 'em up and shoot 'em. These people aren't like wonderful us.

B
*wishing that she did not have to point out that the above is *not* what she thinks, but a paraphrased expression of generic bigotry*

I *hope* that wasn't aimed at me, Ben

"The views expressed are theirs, and unless specifically stated..." and all that.

Noggin

Right I think I understand....

But what a silly thing to argue about, it doesn't matter how you access the site, the problem only arises when you treat it like a chatroom. I think it is unfair to think all people doing this are Telewest migrating-people, I'm sure some PC users do it too.

Well I like everyone the same so and

arrrggghhh i see were back to this topic again......H2G2..V..LD/TELEWEST...
this was dragged up by the same two researchers last year...namely:- aka,,saturnine...which caused mayhem,tho it did settle....now there doing it again..

Em

Fancy joining me in a game of "bang your head against a brick wall?"



lynsey

I think it's silly to argue too CutieChops...cool name

And of course, any ex-Lder who opposes Aka's bigoted views of an ideal h2g2 will be treated like an idiot [] as pointed out by Aka himself in post 78: "It is my personal opinion also, that it is only those who join in to defend themselves that are not very intelligent, and believe their very self is being insulted. The rest of such a community with an ounce of intelligence stay back and smile knowingly that they are the best of a bad lot."

Wrong, utterly wrong Mr Aka Sir... I feel insulted because you've been publicly labelling the users from my old site as trouble makers and from now on, thanks to you, i will be seen as such by anyone who have read your entry and postings... it doesn't make any difference that you have time to time made a point of saying that we are not all bad [how generous of you] as once a label is given to a community [like the one you are putting on this particular part of h2g2 community] all the members of that community suffer...

And of course, the other points i've made earlier on...?!

Should i read you the bit in the <./>HouseRules</.> related to such comments?!... I don't mind really... here we go:

>What is Defamation?

Defamation is the legal term that covers both slander and libel; slander is defamation by word of mouth, and libel is defamation in written form. It is, therefore, the type of defamation we are concerned with in content posted on DNA. A statement about an individual or organisation is deemed to be defamatory if it harms their reputation by:

Exposing the individual or organisation to hatred, ridicule or contempt;

Causing the individual or organisation to be shunned or avoided;

Lowering the individual or organisation in the estimation of right-thinking members of society; or

Disparaging the individual in their office, profession or trade or the organisation's office, profession or trade.

Who Can Sue for Defamation?

Individuals can sue for defamation, and companies can sue for injury to their trading reputation. Although most of the expensive legal claims made against media companies have been made by companies and not individuals, a lot of claims are made against individuals too. It is therefore, important to check your facts whether talking about companies or individuals.

In addition, groups of identifiable individuals can sue for defamation, for example clubs, interest groups etc. See the 'Identification' section below for more details.<

Hmmmmm.... Very tempting indeed....

Oh and that's the bit that i find interesting as well....:

>Identification - For a defamation case to succeed, the defamatory statement must be seen to refer to the claimant, even if that was not the writer's intention. Leaving out someone's name is no guarantee of avoiding defamation, if there are other clues that could lead to their identification.

Not naming anyone can be equally problematic. For example, if you said that 'one of the authors of today's five Edited Entries has stolen work from someone else', then each of the authors of today's entries could argue that the statement could reasonably be taken to refer to him or her, and they could all sue for libel. However, if you said 'all DNA community members were crooks', then the category is so wide that no single member could say he or she was defamed<

Unfortunately for you Mr Aka... Your comments are about a small part of the DNA community and a very easily identifiable one at that...



loup.dargent

Please stop arguing

Loup

I don't believe i am bringing myself down in anyway by trying to defend myself, an action i don't think i _should_ have to do! But i too think that just because i used LD & am on a digibox that I am responsible for h2g2 going down the drain!

As for the people that maybe are just standing back & smiling to themselves, maybe they are themselves the reason that this site is becoming an unfriendly place!
Maybe if people joined together more & tried to HELP situations & add constructive suggestions, rather than just letting these arguments go on, then this place might once again be a nice friendly one!
It doesn't cost much to help people, & if a solution is reached, then isn't _that_ the best thing for everone



lynsey

Oooops.... guys about that...

I do understand that you don't want to see another fight like the one last time... I don't either... That's why i'm going through the <./>HouseRules</.> for this one...?!...

I will be quiet now... honest...

loup

Making judgements about individuals according to their membership of a group, where this is not directly relevant to the judgement being made, is a definite no no.

Noggin

Does this mean the arguing has stopped???