h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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thankyou Ben, very enlightening

what was that about intelligence aka? perhaps you should get yours right

Just to clarify a couple of points.
1. Telewest are not losing any revenue regarding digibox users accsessing this site. They access via e.mail, which is a FREE service provided by Telewest.

2. Telewest ARE aware that this site is used, but as it is a BBC site, have no problem with it.

3. There is an ongoing problem with the infra-red keyboard. Since Telewest upgraded there system, it has caused the keyboard to 'stutter' this is unavoidable, and very frustrating. It means alot of time is spent deleting words and re-typing.

It takes all sorts to make a world, and allsort to make a web site. Why can't people just live ave and let live eh!

Venus (digibox and pc pc user)

that's what the rest of us have been saying Venus, but to alas to no avail it would seem

Yeah i know Some people only hear/read what they want to.

guys...

Some quick comments as i can't be online too long today [unfortunately i won't have the time to be nice and polite either]...

Saturnine... I knew you would come up with the goods one day or another... You _never_ wanted the ex-LDers to come on here [and that's even when you were still a digibox user] so cut the cr*p and just do what you said you will do... no need to try to justify your actions with some more two face arguments ?!

I've got my theory on why Telewest let the digibox users get away with the email loophole and nope, they are not losing any money once they've done their sums... But it is up to them to make the decision anyway... So please do let them know [like if they didn't know _already_ anyway], that might be the little push they need to go through the NetTV service they promised us ages ago...

Aka... I see that your principles are so high that you don't care breaking a few rules yourself for them... I will be happy to go through your entry once i've got some free time and point out how irresponsible it was for an <./>ACE</.> and Guru to write it in the first place... You made me so proud of being an ACE that now i'm having second thoughts about keeping the darn badge...

That's it for now... Not enough time to go through all the cr*ppy excuses/reasons given by former digibox users trying to block access to other digibox users unfortunately...

So, as i said earlier, Saturnine and Aka do tell Telewest if you must... No big deal... Then, after you've done that, we might have a look at those companies losing money with their staff members using h2g2 while at work yeah?!... After all principles are principles and all that...


loup.dargent

I think perhaps I should stop using the site.
After all I don't have a TV licience.

Well I aint got a dog licience, but I aint getting rid of my wife for nobody

manda

Not again!!!

Why does this girl have such an issue with how this site is accessed!

Wether i access this via my digi-box or a pc, it doesn't change me, my posts won't change & neither will in which the manner i post them!
I won't suddenly start spurting long words & stop using smilies!

As for my access via my digi-box being illegal Well get out the s & take me down!
As has been stated before, i don't believe this is about "Our" access being wrong or illegal, i just think this girl has a serious problem with the way in which we conduct our selves online!
So what if we "chat"?! Communication is a great skill & one that can give great pleasure no matter how it is done!
So what if we argue & cause a little uproar sometimes...doesn't everyone & what indeed is this girl doing if not trying to start one great big war (h2g2 Vs Ex-Ld, its been done, get over it!!)
This is a site in which one can post & one can reply...if that isn't some sort of "chat" then shoot me now!


Please girl, get over yourself.....so you don't like us, i can assure you that not everyone likes you either!

You were once a digi-box user yourself pot, kettle, & black springs to mind!



lynsey

Post 61 was one of mine, and was removed for being agressive and hostile.

Which is one of lifes richer ironies.

Anyway - it is good to know that there is such concern for Sys Admins out there and awareness of the immense strain on the bandwidth which is placed by a few dozen users at at time sending and receiving text messages.

There is obviously nothing agressive or hostile in that, and it has nothing to do with trying to exclude people from the site at all.

Ben

Must I reiterate everything I have said in other threads?

Yes, I know Telewest know about the problem of external links in e-mail. They've tried to put a stop to this, and external sites (not on allowed domains, such as bbc.co.uk) are now blocked.

However I'm not sure they realise that other non digibox BBC sites are accessible due to a loophole. Don't expect me to go over what can be found elsewhere on the site. Go look for it yourself. Ie: In the original thread.

"You made me so proud of being an ACE that now i'm having second thoughts about keeping the darn badge"

I'm sorry about that. My views do not reflect those of the BBC or h2g2 in any way, including those of any of h2g2's volunteer groups.

To be an ACE and a Guru is to be helpful to people in need of help where you are available to give it. I'm not sure in the volunteer code of conduct, you have to give up your right to have opinions and thoughts -- opinions I might add, that were only brought into the current debate by those who remember the last similar, but differing debate.

If you were an h2g2 newbie I'd gladly help you out on site without prejudice, and if you were in need of technical assistance at all I'd give you some advice as a guru. Cross me later, and I'm not a nice person at all. I /am/ human, and the 'nice as pie' switch doesn't remain on all the time.

However originally the idea of the 'debate' was not to show how bad and evil the ex-LD community are, and "Quick, let's get them off the site" -- It was to expose the fact that the access method is less than proper, and to alert its current users of this fact, so that they may discontinue its usage and remain able to defend themselves if and when Telewest decide to cut off the access and maybe charge users for using it without desire to at least use their official ISP, Blueyonder.

By doing this, anyone who once used that mode of access is paying Telewest back for any illegal bandwidth stolen.

"So, as i said earlier, Saturnine and Aka do tell Telewest if you must... No big deal..."

You're right. It isn't. As has been said before (but please look for the original thread), we are not trying to purge Telewest users off the site; We have no control over Telewest's actions. We are just informing them of what is happening in a situation we think they ought to know about.

If they go and buy more servers to hold more bandwidth, to compensate for the amount of data transfer being requested, and post a nice friendly link to h2g2 in its Interactive Menu, that's fine. But since that is not already the case, one has to wonder -- Do they really want non digibox sites to be accessed? I mean, they've already cut off external access to sites like google.com, yahoo.com etc. To them, looking at the server logs, it may just seem that BBCi's small, toned down News and Weather site has become immensely popular.

"Then, after you've done that, we might have a look at those companies losing money with their staff members using h2g2 while at work yeah?!... After all principles are principles and all that"

That is entirely different. The companies with Internet Access merely ask you not to use non-work-oriented sites at work. It is not really /their/ bandwidth that is being used, (although in a sense it is - it's the bandwidth allocated to that company by the ISP, however it does not slow down their internal network (transfer of files, etc)) it is the bandwidth of their ISP: BT, Freeserve, NTL, Blueyonder, etc; And even in this case, the equipment of that ISP has been intended for use of heavy data transfer. The Telewest Interactive service was not. Thus, why BBCi make some toned down versions for use by such systems, including limited graphics and summarised text.

Like I said, if they want to allow users to use h2g2, and maybe add more bandwidth to allow everything to run smoothly, (and this will not come free. It may be worth an additional charge for Web access, or it may come under your TV package. That's for Telewest to decide), that is fine. The huge usage of its current system as it is now is certainly not healthy for its servers. Especially where lots of its users are posting messages to h2g2 like '....', just to refresh the page, or whatever reason they actually post such 'messages'. This accounts for even more (wasted in this case) bandwidth.

If Telewest Digital TV want to expand their services to include Internet Access, probably to be provided by their official Internet Service Provider, Blueyonder, then access to h2g2 from your Telewest box will be all great and proper. For the moment though, it is not.

"As has been stated before, i don't believe this is about "Our" access being wrong or illegal, i just think this girl has a serious problem with the way in which we conduct our selves online!"

Whether this be the opinion of Saturnine or not, it's irrelevant to this debate. The fact that encircles the true meaning of this 'argument' remains: Your access is still illegal. It will be sad to see some faces go from h2g2 if the access is overturned, but I'm sure they'll find their way back onto h2g2. I have personally witnessed a lot of ex-LDers who strayed onto h2g2, find their way onto the wider Internet -- off h2g2, once they got themselves online (by either means of getting a PC, or using a Library/Net Café). So with this I'm sure those who just use h2g2 as an extension of a chatroom (I have no problem with people talking at h2g2. That's why we have fora here. Just for your information, I personally do not like those who want h2g2 to be a replacement for a bland chatsite. This site was not intended as such a thing -- h2g2 has a point - a reason to BE. And on this premise I believe it is successful. If it were just a tacky chatsite, it would promptly go out of business, I'm sure.) will get a valid Internet connection and find a 'chatsite' they like more than h2g2, and those who love h2g2 for what Douglas Adams himself intended, as he outlined in his message to new users, will come back to h2g2 and be a prolific Researcher for the Guide, or maybe just run a club or society, or take part in debates, etc. But we seem to have strayed onto the 'Us Versus Them' situation again.

Try and remember this is about the illegal mode of access, with intent to defraud Telewest out of server resources. This is basically what you're doing if you continue to use the e-mail hack, with the knowledge of what it does, even if you believe what I've said about bandwidth to be hearsay and speculation, or complete .

Keep in mind that the UK government plans to have the entire country online, via official PC connections by - when is it? 2005? Next year?

Also can you please direct replies at the original Thread, not here. This is not the place to put your thoughts on this issue.

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Exactly. No need for me to add onto what aka has said.

Loup, I have always held the same opinions, and I have always been honest about it. Hardly the actions of someone who is two-faced.

Most people seem to be confusing my opinions of those who use digiboxes, and the facts of the case that aka and I are bringing up.

If you want to bring up the issue of my OPINION, please start a thread on my page. If you wish to debate what we are talking about, get around to reading the posts properly, stopping to think, and then post on my journal. This is Old Hairy's thread, and shouldn't have been capitalised on like this. Which is WHY I started the journal entry in the first place.

Ben - Indeed. I'm rarely a completely selfish person. The USB2 port is actually going to someone who has been helping me online for 4 years. Money isn't so important that you can't give it to friends...

ok, i know i said i am not posting to this argument again in respect to the Editors request for calm. but i can no longer read your misplaced facts being used as reference.

the original comment was here F615?thread=375405&post=4802116#p4802116

postong 23 was the beginning of all this. Sat9 journal came AFTER. and she only pasted what served her best.
she conveniently left out:

"I for one think h2g2 would be better off without them around," which was referring to all Telewest users.

do you understand why we have reacted as so to this?

i have already admitted you are right in what you say about the link being agianst the rules of Telewest. and i doubt others will argue that neither so please stop banging on about it.

so if you would read the 'original' thread, you would see the whole thing is started by Sat9 wanting to exclude a specific user group using any means neccessary.

that is why we are all in uproar, which i think is what she wanted. your facts are somewhat shady in light of some 'informed' posts last night about cost of Bandwidth. perhaps you should stop posting to these too and just carry out your action of informing a very uninterested Telewest of a problem it is already aware of and let us know how you get on

"I for one think h2g2 would be better off without them around,"

THAT is my personal opinion. It has always been my personal opinion. And it will always be my personal opinion. I have a right to my personal opinion, and being mostly of a high intelligence, I retain that opinion as my own, and part of the reason of why I want this sorted out. I won't deny that it's not connected up with this issue for ME. Not for aka, not for anyone else. ME. The world is not black and white, and topics and issues with a person are always linked up inside them.

Like I have said, if you want to bring it up with me, there is my personal space, just click on my name and rant away.

"and being mostly of a high intelligence"

and that has what to do with this?

as i said, inform away and let us know how your highly intelligent actions get on

"perhaps you should stop posting to these too and just carry out your action of informing a very uninterested Telewest"

You do not know how interested Telewest would be. If you take into account the reliable technical information I've given, you'll understand that they'll want to put a stop to access to a site which loads heavy data transfer. This might actually solve the problems that its status site has been reporting on Blueyonder Broadband Access, which shares a connection with Telewest's Interactive pages: Broadband/High Speed Internet: Regional Issues.

It has always been like that since I can remember. If Telewest sort out the problem of excessive bandwidth usage, then that might go some way to help fix this problem.

If it is down to the excessive bandwidth stealing on the network, then you have made me a very, very angry Blueyonder customer.

""and being mostly of a high intelligence"

and that has what to do with this?"

What right of yours is it to question somebody's intelligence? Somebody whose posts consist not of "I think your wrong lol " (I'm not saying that's you, Creachy. But most people taking up the contrary role in this debate) Debate of this nature can only succeed in finding a suitable result when both parties have at least the mental capacity to take part in the progress of the conversation.

Completely missing the point is happening too much here, and that -- the difference between it, and contributing to a discussion such as this, is what makes intelligence matter.

You may defend yourself with "I didn't question Saturnine's intelligence", but with the '' smiley in place, it only goes so far as to defeat your backup defence such as this.

It is my personal opinion that most of the ex-LD community (Note: Not ALL. Just the obvious ones) is of a lesser intelligence than the rest of the h2g2 community, and mostly the ex-LD community who take part in these conversations to try and conspire that there's an "Us versus Them" situation going on. It is my personal opinion also, that it is only those who join in to defend themselves that are not very intelligent, and believe their very self is being insulted. The rest of such a community with an ounce of intelligence stay back and smile knowingly that they are the best of a bad lot.

That happens to be my opinion. It is neither true nor false, and I'm perfectly within my right to express it, thank you very much.