h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*book mark*

May I thank you all for heeding posting 53 F615?thread=375405&post=4803581#p4802998

aka, would you still be saying all this if you hadn't moved onto a pc? If you were still using a digibox? Have you contacted Telewest and confessed your previous access of h2g2 using their technology? Somehow I doubt it, and I'm wondering what happened to you in the last couple of years that made you think that you could sit on your throne and law down the law in this high-handed manner.

After all, it's not *your* bandwidth that you think is being 'stolen', is it???

What would be a better solution al round, for h2g2 to collect more data from researchers who register, they should be able to monitor the email addresses used and see if a known trouble maker has used that address before to register, now this wont stop people changing or creating new email accounts each time they want to register. Is there some way that h2g2 (dna) can on a regular bases check to see if an email address is still active?
Also it would be great if they could collect isp numbers (some sites do this)

Mina, If I was still using a Telewest digibox now, I'm sure I'd have the same thoughts. For instance, Blueyonder has a habit of falling asleep on me, but if the digibox which I still use for TV viewing was unaffected by Blueyonder's lapse into the world of disconnection, I would not even be tempted to use the digibox method.

What happened to me in the last couple of years? Well, partly, I noticed the kind of person who emigrated from the chatsite found on Telewest was dragging h2g2 down, as you know is my opinion, if you remember the last heavy conversation almost-on this subject; But also I was younger, naive, didn't understand as much as I do know about bandwidth and whatnot, and also back then, there were not as many people using the Telewest digibox - I was not that much of a 'bandwidth thief' as the collective group of digiboxers are together, now.

As Saturnine has pointed out, the influx in the majority of digibox users is leading to treasured regular h2g2 Researchers leaving the site. And I don't know about you, but that for me is a Bad Thing?.

If someone had been around to 'lay down the law' when I was still using a digibox, I would've at least thought twice before continuing to use Telewest's technology, but the majority of digiboxers, once faced with the fact that Telewest will be informed of the problem and a few solutions, respond with little more than "Oh yeah? So what do we care? I think you'll find they'll be uninterested. And even if it is illegal, and costing the company money, and a breach of contract, we'll still continue to use it" - with, as I'm sure you can understand, rather less perfect English. But that's another matter.

Part of the reason I want to do this is to get rid of those who drag down the average IQ of h2g2 as a whole into single figures, from the site, as I think they are a waste of database space and add little to the site, and would do if they accessed the site via a PC. Others may not think so, but that's just me.

And also in reply to "I'm wondering what happened to you in the last couple of years", I'm not exactly sure, but as one E G Mel noted after a while of absence, (not to drag her into the debate at all) I seemed to change, I'd 'evolved' if you will, I started actually using my brain, and I'd like to see a riddance of those who forced Top Hat Kitty Cat, (et al, maybe) to up and leave. And that's not quite elitism. I'd just like to see h2g2 returned to the way it once was.

I am privileged to have found h2g2, and finding it in the purely by chance way that I did, I'm very grateful to whatever force - luck, etc that brought me to it. I admit that I did once use that digibox method, but I do not condone or endorse it /now/. You have to understand when I did use the digibox, I wasn't thinking "Yep. I'm abusing Telewest's server resources and bandwidth, but I don't care, it's the only way I can get to use h2g2" -- As I've learnt more, I've understood why how I accessed h2g2 was wrong, and as I know the digibox community to be a problem to any SysAdmin trying to keep up a system not built for the task, I can use that to get back to me, the h2g2 I once knew and loved; The one that was presented to me back in May 2001 (A significant date for two reasons).

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but I believe, when the whole country has access to the Internet, which is promised to be sometime soon, the treasured researchers who once used a digibox will be welcomed back, and those who drove other researchers away will find a chat site to spend their time on, and realise h2g2 was not what they wanted after all - it was just somewhere to replace the chat site that closed down on them.

"Also it would be great if they could collect isp numbers (some sites do this)"

I assume you mean IP addresses? Well as has been pointed out before, the IP address can still leave the user anonymous and ambiguous, even, and when a digibox has that IP address, it's even less likely you'll get anywhere /near/ the original STB/Smartcard that had that IP address. So, even if the DNA system were to monitor IP addresses, there would be little it could do, since digibox users have an IP change /very/ often; and some accounts (dial up especially) get a new IP each connection, I understand.

Broadband accounts differ. My account's IP address changes roughly every six months, and there are apparently 'hacker tools' that allow the user to /change/ their IP. I'm uncertain on that one, though.

Overall, the IP is unreliable though.

At the risk of sounding contradictory here I have to agree with a lot of your post. Although, to quote you. You said, “I wasn’t that much of a bandwidth thief”
Nonetheless if you consider current digibox users to be stealing bandwidth, then you have to accept if that’s your opinion, then you to was a bandwidth thief. If I steal 2 sweets from a shop but my friend stole for am I less of a thief? No im still a thief.

Aka sorry, yes I did mean ip address. It was just a line of enquiry anyway, I agree with you as I stated in my last post that there are a lot of digibox users who are abusing the site and treating it as if it where a chat site, but I believe that this is because there first encounter of a web site was a chat site provided by their interactive services. From what I have seen via lurking, I see they do like to argue and it does indeed bring the site down to chat room level, this has to be stopped, I don’t believe established researcher want it to go down that rout, from what you was saying though, didn’t you come from a chat site? You don’t treat h2g2 as a chat site now. Maybe at first you did? It is what people from digiboxes are used to, im sure most of them will adapt and fit very nicely into the h2g2 community, but we must root out and rid the community of the ones that will always abuse h2g2, and this was what prompted my enquiry regarding tracing there ip numbers, I was exploring ways to deal with the problem that is evident here on h2g2.. im just not convinced that it is just digibox users who are abusing it,

Thanks, zyrak - It's great to see there are people willing to speak up on the issue of that type of digibox user.

"there are a lot of digibox users who are abusing the site and treating it as if it where a chat site, but I believe that this is because there first encounter of a web site was a chat site provided by their interactive services."

That might be true, but as I came from that very same chatsite, regrettably, you'd expect I acted in the same way. Not completely true. I was confused as to what h2g2 was all about at first, but soon got to grips with it all, and to start with, I never perceived h2g2 to be a chat site, even with the amibiguous naming of '<./>MiscChat</.>'.

There are pages on h2g2 about what h2g2 was founded for, the premise behind it, what you can do, and also Netiquette on h2g2. However the majority of them seem to not want to listen, and carry on abusing the site as if it were that ghastly 'Leisure District'. And it is this activity I cannot just stand to watch and do nothing about. As I've said, the treasured and fruitful researchers who use a digibox will be missed, but hopefully will find access to h2g2 again soon (What with the UK Online for 2005 thing and all, and already widely available schools, workplaces, colleges and Internet cafés around), and even at this price (seeing as the 'good' researchers will hopefully return), the removal of digibox access seems justified.

"Maybe at first you did?"
I've changed a lot since I first registered at hootoo, but as I've said, I didn't ever perceive h2g2 to be a chat site. What's more the Writing side of h2g2 intrigued me and I guess pulled me in, though admittedly I've not got an Edited Entry under my name yet.
It also annoys me that the only apparent reason some digibox users sign up is because - "Hey! You can talk on this site! Woah! What a relief. And I thought the demise of Leisure District meant we had no chat! Phew!" seems to be on their lips -- and they do nothing to contribute to the progress of the site as the Standard Repository of Information Pertaining to Life, The Universe, and Everything.

It's not the h2g2 I was promised at registration.

I stated some time ago that I believe that it’s down to the user of h2g2 and not whether or not they are on pc, an abusing user can be from any system or indeed both,
I don’t care how the person is accessing this site either way, what I do mind is the person behind the account abusing h2g2 whether that researcher is on digibox or pc, I would want to see the back of them.
Is it a fact that digibox users geraly stick to a certain corner of hootoo? This will cause them to stand out as troublemakers more than a pc user who abuses the site in a wider area of hootoo.

As I also stated in previous posts that we all use parts of h2g2 to make small talk, and as far as I have seen there are pubs and clubs that people go to chat, in addition there’s the ld corners of hootoo,

Maybe this is why people don’t see it as anything other than just another place to chat. Maybe if the leisure district section wasn’t written things would be different, who knows?

As I said I have to agree a lot of digi box users do abuse the site and use it to air their dirty laundry. It’s a question of how we can pull together as a community (with digi box users too) to make things better for us all.

I really don’t think informing t/west of a loophole will cure the problem h2g2 has at the moment. I haven’t got the answers to the problem either,
I do think that those who run h2g2 and maybe its volunteer groups should and could do more to make it a better place to be, for instance they take to long to remove an offending post or a post that clearly breaks the house rules, this needs to be instant. Didgibox users cant yikes a post themselves and is visible for all to see until they get it yikesd via email in the mean time that post is commented on, where as if it was removed instantly half the arguments on h2g2 could be nipped in the bud, making h2g2 a much friendlier place where digibox users and pc users could live in harmony.
A nice thought don’t you think?

Gives up on this thread discussing anything but digibox

"Is it a fact that digibox users geraly stick to a certain corner of hootoo? This will cause them to stand out as troublemakers more than a pc user who abuses the site in a wider area of hootoo."

I think that's more or less accurate. They tend to stick to the LD corners, since that's where they all emigrated from.

Harmony: A nice idea, but it's only ever used in policitcal spin.

Harmony would be nice, and I think its achievable if the italics pulled their fingers out and acted more quickly to problem users, and trouble black spots. I think with recent events such as the Liam/lee problems h2g2 should look at ways of stopping this level of abuse, I think this is what prompted this thread. I don’t think t/west will do anything to stop the abuse h2g2 has suffered in recent time. As long as customers are paying there bills. If the loophole was closed would a lot of digibox users move to sky? Is this what t/west anticipates and that why they wont close the loophole?

Warrior. It’s not just about digibox users. As this debate about digibox users was inspired I believe by the liam saga. I haven’t seen or heard anything since the w/end of anymore accounts and help groups he may of set up. Strangely enough his so called mother (flicker) hasn’t appeared on line since either

I don't think it's fair to blame the italics outright. They do a good and difficult job and don't always get the gratitude for it.

That's a good point. They may keep the hack unpatched for competition reasons - but if they do that I hope they get the bandwidth to support it. If nothing else when I'm watching TV, if some of the servers are being knocked out, it makes the 'Interactive Services Online' light on my STB flash incessantly!

Note that I still have the digibox and still pay for the services. I cannot understand those who have a PC and a Telewest box and still use /both/ for h2g2. Strange behaviour.

People, I can understand why some researchers are annoyed with this thread continuing...I provided a link ages ago so that this was all redirected.

OH.

I meant to mention that before aswell; After even suggesting that this is not the place for the argument, it still continued.
I'm unsubscribing from this thread myself and willnot therefore be monitoring its progress.

If you wish to discuss with me the 'matter', do so either on my Space or the other thread.

"Part of the reason I want to do this is to get rid of those who drag down the average IQ of h2g2 as a whole into single figures from the site, as I think they are a waste of database space and add little to the site, and would do if they accessed the site via a PC. Others may not think so, but that's just me."


I can't believe that anyone would say this. On one foul swoop you have just swept every single person who uses a digibox into a pot marked 'unintellignet and unproductive'. You have also swept everyone who might be less intelligent than you into a pot marked 'waste of space'. I am so glad that the BBC as a whole doesn't think like you. Because the very people that you are slagging off are the people that the BBC are trying to reach.

"I'd just like to see h2g2 returned to the way it once was."

With lots of short entries that weren't very good? The ones that have either been demoted from the Edited Guide or updated by the moire recent Researchers? Returned to that? And are you saying that 'no' one who uses a digibox has ever contributed to the Edited Guide?

"the influx in the majority of digibox users is leading to treasured regular h2g2 Researchers leaving the site"

Is it? Really? Are you sure? Name some 'treasured Researchers' who have left. And what was treasered about them? And who was doing the 'treasuring'? And what make 'their' page impression more 'treasured' that of the people you are trying to get rid of?

I don't work for h2g2 anymore, but I do still work for BBC communities, and while you are entitled to your opinion, it's swiftly becoming a very offensive opinion.

Loup n Little Miss!!
At last some some common sense on here! I've bee been waiting to read some for ages!

AKA i just find you a complete hypocrite.
You are the so-called creator ator of this link n it looks like you're embarbarrased by by some users who have used that link in the way they cause havoc on here.re. So now you decide you don't want people to use that link n are now creating a code to stop it.
What are you? God?
WhWhy don't you just contribute to this site n use use it in the correct manner instead of moaning all the time.

Well i think we've found our scapegoat people. If it wasn't for AKA Lee wouldn't have even been on this site.

Just a few little points of order. Firstly, as ever, we are subscribed to this thread and have followed it from the beginning. To address the original point first, we have contacted the Researcher concerned offsite and are awaiting a response. While we are always pleased to see someone enthusiastically embrace h2g2, we can see by the reactions of the Community that the setting up (and abandoning) of numerous 'help' groups, however unofficial they might be labelled, will be damaging to the site. This is especially worrying as, being a new Researcher, they are setting themselves up as an expert to a site they don't really understand and are ill-equipped to cope with the responsibility. This is confusing and frustrating for Researchers new and old.

But rather than hounding this researcher from the site, we would hope that his enthusiasm might be channelled in a more positive way, as many of our Aces have already very wisely suggested.

AKA makes a very good point here about the evolution from LD member to h2g2 Researcher. I don't think it's unfair to say that a small proportion of Digibox users seem to make the most noise for the least benefit to the site and the Community as a whole. That's not, however, to say that they all do. We would certainly hope that Digibox users are not a lost cause, and that the Community can guide them - as they have AKA.

This might seem like a harsh reaction, but I ersonally think it's all a matter of perspective. Aside from the House Rules and expectations of general common decency, there are no hard rules about how people must use h2g2, and it's highly probable that each individual who decides to interact through h2g2 does so with their own preconceptions of that they hope to get out of it. If a researcher wants only to chat, then that's their choice and they are still a respected and valued member of the Community. But h2g2 always has been (and will continue to be) primarily about writing entries. That is what we, the h2g2 staff, are her to help with and as ever our main focus remains the Guide itself. We do not intend our job to become the arbitration of petty squabbles or namecalling sessions - we're editors, not referrees . Frankly, there are plenty of other sites out there that can provide that kind of service. If Telewest users have come here through a loophole, then it is only right and decent that we welcome them with open arms. But in turn, we also need to remind them - as warmly and politely as humanly possible - that this is not, and while we are here never will be, a 'chat site'. It is so much more than that.

Jimster