h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I would like to recommend this entry:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A665822.

There has just been a marbles craze at my son's school! Comments are welcome.

Hi Zarniwoop! Great entry here. Forgive me, I really do think it's good, I'm just in a *very* nitpicky mood. Here goes:

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Are these marbles scissors the same as the shears that you describe further on in the entry? If so, maybe a little fenagleing is in order here to make the whole thing flow.

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This sentance doesn't seem to work out quite right grammatically.

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Maybe "began in" would work better here.

I don't understand what you do to "knuckle down." A clearer explenation may be in order here.

What are the differences between the types of marbles? Is it just the name, or is the size different?

Throughout this entry, I found myself puzzled about certain elements, only to find that you clear my confusion two or three paragraphs later. You might consider trying to change around the order to make this entry more comprehensive.

Feel free to ignore anything I say.

Hi Strider!

Thanks for the comments.

Last one first. If you tell me the order you wanted to ask the questions, only to find they were answered later, I might be able to put footnotes in, saying see the section on 'x'. That might work. But I need to know what wasn't clear.

Back to the first one. The references I used referred to both scissors and shears. I'll have a closer look to see if they throw any more light on it. I can remember thinking the same as you at the time.

I've looked at the next sentence again and it seems grammatically OK to me. Have you an alternative that reads better?

I'll change the next one. I think you can say both.

Ah yes, knuckling down. I can remember doing this as a child. I haven't played since then and it's a long time ago. I found I could only really understand it if I actually did what the text suggested with my fingers and thumb and then it made sense.

Describing things without the aid of diagrams is always difficult and my sources didn't have diagrams for this aspect. I'll go back and look at it and see if I can improve the instructions. Meanwhile, try following the instructions physically and see if it makes a difference. Let me know!

I think I've cracked it! I've made the part on names into a footnote and amended one of the sentences you didn't like. Another I've left, as I think mine is more accurate 'from' means starting from and is past continuous.

I've thought long and hard about the knuckling down section. I knew it was going to be difficult. It came straight from a manual. I've just worked out how to make it more understandable, so I'm going to amend that now. Oh, and I noticed a typo in it that had slipped through.

See what you think!

Just a brief thing I noticed reading this again:

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Obviously just a typo. Should be "are"

Well, the whole Shooting section is before you explain why anybody would want to shoot a marble. You do mention that there are games associated with marbles, but somebody unfamiliar with marbles wouldn't know that these two are related.

I'm still confused by knuckling. how exactly is the marble held above the first joint of the thumb? which is the first joint? Which knuckle is held on the ground? The thumb is released? I know just how hard it is to describe this sort of thing. Keep going, I'm sure you'll get it.

Also, the explenation of "Keeps" is unclear unless you know what sort of game is being played. I think that one explains itself well enough, though, so you don't really need to change it.

The only other order thing I had was with the shears/scissors, but we've already addressed that.

I think the thing that strikes me as odd with the sentance is the "were used" used in conjunction with "being created". An alternative? Come on, you didn't expect me to actually be productive, did you? Ok, how about:

Glass marbles became increasingly popular throughout Europe and America and began to be produced in a huge variety of colours used in conjunction with intricate designs within the glass.

hmm. that's not very good. something like that, though. maybe that. it's kind of long...

Hi Strider!

I've amended the typo, altered the sentence you didn't like and put in a footnote about winning marbles ahead of the 'keeps' bit.

However for the moment, I can't do better than what's there on 'knuckling down'. The forefinger obviously touches the marble to keep it in place until it is shot. I'll give it more thought.

I like this entry - it made me want to go and search out my old allys! I think I gave them away years ago, though.

I can't get my head around the knuckling down instructions - I've been sitting here with a little ball of cooking foil pinging it around the room, and although the cat is having fun I don't understand what I'm trying to do. I can see how difficult to describe this is.

I'm also not 100% clear on the third paragaph of the rules of Conqueror - << but if s/he misses, s/he will then throw a new marble to restart the game. If s/he misses it, however, this marble remains in the field. >>
Which one remains in the field? Has s/he missed twice, or do both of these clauses refer to the same miss?

Have you seen the entry on Playground Games, A569982? You might want to link to it - then again, you may not, just a thought.

I think the article is great, though, very nostalgic, and I'm delighted to hear that children are still playing with marbles. I look forward to seeing it on the front page.

Hi Captain Kebab!

I've added the link and clarified the rules on 'Conqueror' (hopefully). I''ve tried e-mailing the source of my information on knuckling down for a better description (I found it in a booklet 'All about marbles'), but my first attempts bounced back. Hopefully, I might hear on Monday. If not, I can try phoning later in the week.

I have to confess that during my marbling days, I used the first method. Knuckling down is the way tournament players play.

Yup - that little tweak made all the difference - totally clear now.

It's clear that I (and as I recall all my mates) fulked rather than knuckling down - but I never heard it called that before. I think the word has a certain something.

I have a thought that may help - you said there was a craze for marbles at your son's school. If you can knuckle down, and he can't (or perhaps one of his friends) you could try teaching him - that might help you come up with a form of words to describe what you are doing?

Now I understand knuckling down! It was the bit about having the back of your hand on the ground that cleared it up for me. I've always shot marbles with my hand sideways.

All the aditions look great!

This looks like an interesting entry. My daughters have a collection of names for all the different types of glass marble, including cat's eyes, king rollers, gulliers and so on. You don't seem to mention anything like that anywhere. Would you be interested in details of such names?

This is a great entry, Used to play with marbles alot when I was a kid.
I printed it and read it from paper, so I'll post my notes when I get back home and have them (I meant to get them to work today, but forgot to)

But I did enjoy it alot.


Dancer

re Gnoomon about marble names. I notice the entry includes 'dobbers' we used to call the bigger sized marbles 'sponny dobbers' and I've always wondered why - anyone any ideas!

Nice entry btw...

I did consider putting something in about cats eyes etc, and two things stopped me. Firstly, the difficulty of describing them accurately and secondly, whether it would confuse the issue with alleys, taws, etc. I also considered putting something in about other uses to which marbles can be put, eg in flower arrangements, in fish tanks, under floating candles, etc and decided against it.

However, if there is consensus that I should include them, I'm happy to expand the entry. What do people think?

We used to call largish steel marbles 'dobbers', by the way. I think it was something to do with size and weight. I've no idea what a sponny dobber is - presumably much the same thing.

Additions don't seem necessary to me...

If other people want them though...

I'd keep it to marbles used in gaming.

The list of names for different marbles just gives the entry a nice bit of texture.

I'm anyway!

I found quite a nice photo of knuckling down, which may help with comprehension. Let me know what you think. Does it help? In competition marbles, you need to start with the marble in your hand, not on the carpet.

As for names - cats eyes, swirls, augers, onion skins, etc., when I looked around there are so many names for different types of marbles, I could almost do an entry on its own about them, so I'm still feeling a bit ho-hum. I'll give it more thought, but I'm not entirely convinced. It seems that marbles collecting is quite a thing and that the internet has given it loads of momentum.

Hmm - I think I know what you mean now. I can't think of a better way of putting it - the picture helps a lot.

I tend to go along with the view that you don't need to add the names - I see this as an entry on marbles as a game, rather than collecting. Of course that means you can do another one!

I've just received an e-mail from House of Marbles, who have sent me illustrations of fulking and knuckling down (also of another method called Indian method, which consists of placing the palm of the hand face down on the floor, pulling the middle finger back and holding the marble against it with the other hand - I can't for the life of me think that method would be at all accurate!).

Unfortunately, I haven't a way to link to it, but I'm happy I've got the description right. The main difference between fulking and knuckling down is which finger acts as the trigger and in knuckling down, the thumb is bent backwards a bit more.

I think I'll leave out the names in this entry. I might consider doing another at a later stage on marbles collecting (although why anyone would want to pay as much as they obviously do for marbles is beyond my ken), in which case, I'll ask about the names your daughter uses, Gnomon!

I can imagine a child attempting to explain to it's mother that the reason it had a callus on a particular digit was because that was its
falking......finger....
Do you imagine children come up with these names on purpose...?