A Conversation for Old Announcements: January - September 2011
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17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
clzoomer- a bit woobly Posted Mar 19, 2004
My apologies, Jab. I was using txt spch. I was endeavouring to discuss *bonnie moats* which are of course particularly nice deep and wide trenches around the rampart of a Scottish castle, usually filled with water.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Noggin the Nog Posted Mar 19, 2004
Given that the privies generally emptied into the moat, the word "water" is of course used only loosely.
Noggin
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Loup Dargent Posted Mar 19, 2004
Just in case...
It has never been said in the <./>HouseRules</.> that foreign words/sentences/postings would be _automatically_ removed...
It actually says in the section about foreign postings:
>Because we have to ensure we understand a Posting or Guide Entry before we can pass it, languages other than English may have to be removed.< ..."may" being the key word here...
And while this really was written _before_ the new moderation system, yikesing a post because there are foreign words in it might not get a post failed...
loup
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jab [Since 29th November 2002] Posted Mar 19, 2004
Jim, I refer not to a *already* moderated on post, but to one that was created *after* this thread.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jim Lynn Posted Mar 19, 2004
Yes, I understand that. And I'm telling you that we are *not* scanning for foreign language posts, new or old. This glitch only affected old posts. Nothing else was, or will be, affected.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jab [Since 29th November 2002] Posted Mar 20, 2004
Post 100, "we are not suddenly scanning the whole datatbase for foreign words"
Yes, post 1 made it clear a problem had occured regard historical post.
From post 1, a fine bit of hooto ribbing occured, and one or two proper questions, got lost in there.
One question was about recent problems with access, a reply covered by Jim Lynn. I had the impression the answer to this question was to show the two events as seperate.
Going back to the origional nature of the thread, foreign language post, I'm still trying to get to a definition of what counts as a post to yikes.
cl zoomer has idenifed their post, not as foriegn.
*avoids the black hole that is the debate about "text speak" or "txt spk" even.*
Since my question about what counts as foreign, a post problem, post resolved, and reported (here) yikes was done by me to test if it was just the odd word not directly recognised as English that would be removed.
Idon't know why you would think, that Ithing a whole scan for foreign words would be taking place.
I'm taking about if I was to yikes a post today, that may not contain English, to what extent does it have to be *foreign*?
A word, as sentence, etc etc.
As for the House Rules, well more and more they remind me of "The Pirates Code." - Not so much your actual rules, more like guide lines. Yes I've been watching the film, Pirates of the Caribbean. It's not a bad.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jim Lynn Posted Mar 20, 2004
Jab, just don't worry about it. The *only* reason you should yikes any post is if you feel it is either offensive in some way, defamatory, or infringes copyright. Merely containing foreign words is not a reason to yikes it. If you can't understand a post, then you can't be offended by it.
If you *did* yikes a post containing foreign words, and the moderator could not understand the post, the moderator would *have* to refer the post, because he or she wouldn't be able to make a decision on whether the complaint is justified. When h2g2 was post-moderated, and every post was checked by a moderator, we had to enforce this. Now that h2g2 is reactively moderated, we *only* check things which our users complain about, so it's perfectly OK to use foreign languages. Unless someone complains. Which they should *only* do if they understand the post and know it is offensive.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
plaguesville Posted Mar 20, 2004
In the words of the late Ray Ellington:
"Ooh, that's NICE!"
Thanks Jim.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jab [Since 29th November 2002] Posted Mar 20, 2004
*stops the worry about foreign language*
Thankyou for getting to what does matter, tucked away in the rules. Though some post knocking about and "if you can't read it you can't be insulted" in mind at the same time could prove interesting.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Peta Posted Mar 20, 2004
Hi
Jim isn't exactly correct in when he says that
"...it's perfectly OK to use foreign languages. Unless someone complains. Which they should *only* do if they understand the post and know it is offensive."
Please refer to Jim Sangster's posting here:
F615?thread=395655&post=5047281#p5026107
In which he says:
"There are occasions where our own limited language skills might be able to verify the meaning of a sentence, and on those occasions we're happy to leave the posting up, but as there is no global translation facility available to us, *all postings have to be in English*.
Having said that, h2g2 is an International Community and we have Researchers from all over the World whose only common language is English. In the interests of fairness, we feel that, aside from the resource issue, it would exclude other Researchers and lead to confusion if non-English language postings were to appear on-site without a translation next to them.
A way around your problem here, then, is to provide the translation yourself. As h2g2 largely works on trust, if a translation is provided (as you might often see in Edited Entries on h2g2), the Community won't feel as compelled to alert us to that posting - unless of course, the translation is misleading or hiding an inappropriate comment."
The House Rules also say:
'Postings or entries containing languages other than English may be removed. Because we have to ensure we understand a Posting or Guide Entry before we can pass it, languages other than English may have to be removed."
So posting in languages other than English is not advised. The post may be removed if it can't be easily understood. We recommend, for everyone's sake that you post in English.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
SEF Posted Mar 20, 2004
"The post may be removed if it can't be easily understood. We recommend, for everyone's sake that you post in English."
If only that sort of judgement were fairly applied it might remove some of the moronic txt spk and l33t stuff too. On the whole the "foreigners" who post here probably speak better English than some of the "locals".
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Ottox Posted Mar 20, 2004
First: Technical glitches and things like that can of course happen and though it's annoying, it's okay when they are explained (and excused).
But maybe Jim (as usual) is correct, and Jimster isn't. Of course Jimster is the h2g2 italic and Jim isn't, but maybe he then should get the houserules changed to look the way they do on for example Collective.
As long as the houserules are as they are it IS perfectly ok to use foreign languages. And it's extremely annoying to receive emails telling that posts have been *failed* on the reason that they're not in English when the moderationFAQ very clearly states that such posts should (might) only be referred (even if on a permanent basis), not failed.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Peta Posted Mar 20, 2004
Hi Ottox,
Jim is the technical lead on DNA; his role doesn't include editorial or moderation related issues on any of the DNA sites, including h2g2.
Jimster works specifically on h2g2 and is responsible for the content posted here, along with Natalie.
It's also worth noting that moderation policy and House Rules are developed pan BBC rather than on a site by site basis by the sites' Producers, although there are some local variations for editorial reasons.
The collective House Rules, are pretty much identical to the h2g2 ones in terms of policy - the languages rule there is the same as the one on h2g2 - "No foreign languages. Posts containing languages other than English may be removed".
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jackruss a Grand Master of Tea and Toast, Keeper of the comfy chair, who is spending a year dead for tax reasons! DNA! Posted Mar 20, 2004
I've been following with bated breath, and i'm still board! so i'm takingf the dogs for a walk and when i get back i might post something on the matter!
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Ottox Posted Mar 20, 2004
"Jim is the technical lead on DNA; his role doesn't include editorial or moderation related issues on any of the DNA sites, including h2g2.
Jimster works specifically on h2g2 and is responsible for the content posted here, along with Natalie."
Yes, that's what I said. At least it's what I tried to say. "Of course Jimster is the h2g2 italic and Jim isn't"
"The collective House Rules, are pretty much identical to the h2g2 ones in terms of policy - the languages rule there is the same as the one on h2g2 - "No foreign languages. Posts containing languages other than English may be removed"."
The Collective House Rules does indeed say just that: "No foreign languages"
The h2g2 rules does not!
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
Jackruss a Grand Master of Tea and Toast, Keeper of the comfy chair, who is spending a year dead for tax reasons! DNA! Posted Mar 20, 2004
Well i've just got back from walking the dogs and i'm still trying to think what to say about this language problem on h2g2! but I think it a load of old bollo, i'm going back to ignoring stuff today! sorry!
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
plaguesville Posted Mar 20, 2004
Well, Rev. Jack,
If you're too idle to contribute, get the dogs to do it; provided they're not dachshunds or something similar that bark in foreign.
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
SiriusTheDogStar Posted Mar 20, 2004
The BBC is a UK web host. English is the "first" second language the world over. If folks want to use foreign languages...good but please give a fair translation.
Key: Complain about this post
17 March, 2004: Recent Moderation Difficulties
- 101: clzoomer- a bit woobly (Mar 19, 2004)
- 102: Noggin the Nog (Mar 19, 2004)
- 103: Loup Dargent (Mar 19, 2004)
- 104: Jab [Since 29th November 2002] (Mar 19, 2004)
- 105: Jim Lynn (Mar 19, 2004)
- 106: Jab [Since 29th November 2002] (Mar 20, 2004)
- 107: Jim Lynn (Mar 20, 2004)
- 108: plaguesville (Mar 20, 2004)
- 109: Jab [Since 29th November 2002] (Mar 20, 2004)
- 110: clzoomer- a bit woobly (Mar 20, 2004)
- 111: Peta (Mar 20, 2004)
- 112: SEF (Mar 20, 2004)
- 113: clzoomer- a bit woobly (Mar 20, 2004)
- 114: Ottox (Mar 20, 2004)
- 115: Peta (Mar 20, 2004)
- 116: Jackruss a Grand Master of Tea and Toast, Keeper of the comfy chair, who is spending a year dead for tax reasons! DNA! (Mar 20, 2004)
- 117: Ottox (Mar 20, 2004)
- 118: Jackruss a Grand Master of Tea and Toast, Keeper of the comfy chair, who is spending a year dead for tax reasons! DNA! (Mar 20, 2004)
- 119: plaguesville (Mar 20, 2004)
- 120: SiriusTheDogStar (Mar 20, 2004)
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