h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Wow.... Now if only all of us could get together and take over the world or at least persuade a large number of politicians to hang out on this site for a good long while, then maybe we could make the world a better place. Still as a thought, what are your (anybody's) feelings toward something like anarchy. I don't mean some post-apocolyptic "Mad Max" world. I mean sort of governing of the self by the self, if you will. I know that will never happen. People are too, well, people.

Yes... My general view on politics is that virtually every political system works very well in theory (including communism, anarchy and dictatorships) but in practice they're all useless (without exception). Simply because, as you say, people are people.

We just need to apply the most suitable political system to each group of people; anarchy doesn't work with large numbers of random people, but works fine with a small group of intelligent individuals.

For example, I live with two students; our house could be described as anarchic (in more than one way...), because we each sort things out for ourselves. Occasionally, when paying bills and the like, we get together in a sort of democratic way, but I wouldn't describe our washing up system as democratic

The political system that will work best will not be a "system" with fixed rules or a fixed lack of rules. It will be based on attitudes and ideals. The rules would be allowed to flow and change freely from the attitudes towards the ideals.

I'd like to get back to what Uncle Heavy had to say about culture. What he calls "culture" has to do with the inner attitudes of humans. Our cultural artifacts are supposed to come about as a result of these inner attitudes. What Uncle Heavy perceives as a lack of culture in modern-day society can be seen as a result of a lack of sincerity, care and depth of feeling in modern humans. Perhaps what is bad is that the people considered to be the top "artists" of our time seem to lack these attitudes.

Uncle Heavy, I share your concern. I believe that many modern humans are shallow and materialistic. I see this as a result of a false world-view and negative attitudes being taught and presented as examples to people. It can change through a world-wide educational effort. And it is already starting to change.

I repeat again what I said earlier: the situation is not the same everywhere in the world. In America and Europe people have become soft and complacent because they enjoy all material comforts and falsely believe that these are the best things in life. But some are starting to realize that they're not. And in many other countries people don't have these material benefits, and in many of them people concentrate on different values. Global advertising of course seeks to change that.

I believe that there will soon be a few global crises that will alter the course on which mankind finds itself.

Pillow you sure you never thought about a career in politics ?

Politics would destroy anyone.




This discussion is all very stereotypical. People sitting smugly around saying:

'yes. we're all totally in agreement. society is bad. something should be done, but no one is doing it. what an awful world we live in.'

Perhaps I'm just too cynical for my own good.

Hmmmmm..... I don't know.... I'm very cynical, myself. I've actually noticed that I've been complaining about "kids these days." I'm only 20! I think I may end up old and crotchedy before my time.

Wait until policemen start lookin young

>The political system that will work best will not be a "system" with >fixed rules or a fixed lack of rules. It will be based on attitudes >and ideals. The rules would be allowed to flow and change freely >from the attitudes towards the ideals.
Which is what Anarchy really is (anarchy is not chaos[chaos is not random]and all words are confusing).
>people will be people
I dont agree with this are you saying that people are
naturally greedy manipulative and capitalistic?
I think that although we are born with a will to
survive we are born with a much stronger will to live
peacefully (part of the reason most people dont give two
figs about politics and just want to get on with there
lives)
If people are educated 'properly' then they will understand
that there self interest is best surved by living peacefully
and getting on with every one.
The current education system is all about compatision from an
early age children are tested and graded and told how good they are
in relation to others which leads them to see all others as
compation 'the enemy'.
on culture, the actual meaning of the word has changed so
it makes no sense to compare culture now to culture then.
Culture used to imply some thing of value
but now it represents all the stuff we do (i.e. popular culture)
popular culture is controlled by money, highbrow culture is
controlled by money just as much as low brow.
True culture is still controlled by high regard but unfortunately
the money is taking over this as well.
Telling us what to value (there products!) telling us
how to live. Advertisements every were
and people pretend that they arnt effected by adverts
but they are. Our lives/culture is fast becoming
controlled by admen.
I applaud MP3 and all prirating ok artists need money
to eat but money you spend on CDs mostly gos to the admen
Money curupts true culture.

Uncle Heavy, IRL I do a lot to try and make the world a better place. I cultivate threatened species of wild South African plants, I go to schools and give talks to kids, I try and be a good friend to my friends, and if I have kids one day I will raise them right and teach them that there are higher values than money and "image".

Jk, Anarchy may in theory be a good system, but we need some intermediate measures to get us from where we are now to there. I personally believe that the internet is the most powerful medium for subverting oppressive systems because it is worldwide and there is no effective way to censor it. I also believe that the internet can become a model for a world society where things get done mostly by communication and cooperation and mutual agreement, so that laws and physical force become unnecessary. So there wouldn't be any "crimes" as such, but a information system that monitors problems globally and if there's a problem anywhere in the world, a group of people can come together quickly and go to solve it in whatever way is necessary. You can have different groups that specialize on different kinds of problems: environmental problems, people disrupting or threatening other people's lives, health problems, and so on - and instead of laws you will have skills and problem solving strategies for dealing with them.

This is how it works on a global level anyway. There is no "law" that is accepted by every nation on earth. What is seen as a human rights violation in one place is not seen that way in another. So when you deal with global problems, for instance the war in the Congo, you cannot go and seize people and punish them, you have to go and talk with them and try to persuade them to do things differently.

Worldwide people need to realize that problems cannot be forced towards a solution. War is becoming more and more futile. The same with crime and punishment. We need new ways of dealing with problems and solving conflicts.

well said pillow

Bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy...







(Sorry just been watching tigger film)

Yay! Cool film

Hello everyone.

sorry I haven't been around so much lately, I hope you all have the food and drink you require.

Of course it is all very well sitting about saying that things are bad, but it won't make them any better. So, Practical Solutions for a Utopian Future anyone???

pj

ps - mine is making clothes in a happy fashion. Not earth shattering, I know, but practical, possible and an improvement on sweatshops. Also, with the added advantage of making groovy things (clothes)

ps - willem plants trees.

ps - anyone else???

>Anarchy may in theory be a good system, but we need some >intermediate measures to get us from where we are now to there.
The problem is that the corporations
have all the power, people wory
about multinationals taking over
the world but they all ready have
there is (probly) no contry in the
world were you cant drink Coca-cola
The internet may be liberating to some
users but its tecnology is controlled
by the huge corporations.
Its is far to late to educate the world
out of this problem, the corporations
controll the means of education.
How can we beat them but with an active
(vilolent?) revolution?

JK, I sympathise with the ideals here, but society needs strictures, because humans are humans, as someone succinctly put it. And those pathetic, swampy-alike (swampy - a pathetic but infamous british anarchist) anarchists are plain stupid. Hanging around unwashed, torn-clothed and dreadlocked, making tiny, laughable gestures like putting someturf down on concrete are a global laughing stock. They won't change the world, and neither will the Rage Against The Machine smash-up-a-Maccy D's and choke-on-teargas-thrown-by-the-capitalist-oppressor-types are just as bad. Violence won't get yo heard. You'll be laughed at by those less radical and tutted at by the blue-rinses and the middle classes. and you'll achieve nothing, except give strength to other brainless anarchists. To beat the system, you have to work from within. but not to break it down. That will not work. you have to make subtle changes in social perspective, and keep to society. Change makes people wary, but gradual directing would work. But none of that is ever going to happen.

Pillow, I applaud what you do! What are you? Gamewarden or something?

One last thought: AOL - more scary than Microsoft, MacDonald's and Unilever all rolled into one!

Nope - Microsoft more scary than AOL(even after the merger).

>humans are humans
What humans are is conditioned by life
to an extent they are preprogramed
but I belive that it the nuture side
(education) that teaches people not
to give a dam.
>Anarchists are plain stupid
Anarchists can be stuiped,clever or moronic
I dont really give two figs.
But Anarcky as a theory is the only apropreate
system for allowing evry one to live life with
the rights there due.
I stress anarky dose not equal chaos!
I dont belive that the smashing up a Mcdonalds
though fun would achive anything that is unless
alot of people did it
(aside-in fance farmers smashed up a Mcdonalds and achive quite a bit)
A real revolution needs the masses to join in.
>To beat the system, you have to work from within
It is not possible to beat the system from with in the system
is to strong!
Revolutions have happened in the past and they have changed things
why not again?
Do you really belive you can fight
the multinatioanalls from with in?
or from government?

theres lots of ways to fight the multinationals - they are ultimatley just a bunch of people doing stuff.

consumer boycotts are obvious, but since almost everything comes from omnicorp, only blanket one-day actions like buy nothing day could be effective. Ethical purchasing is to some extent possible, but not if you're poor.

smashing mcdonalds just goes on the news instead of the peaceful protests, and demos such as in nice and seattle are vaguely portrayed as violent young radicals bent on destruction. and swampy like types are hardly universally popular... But there are some protests and actions that perhaps can raise the profile of popular dissatisfaction - the Mc libel trial, the french farmers and mcDonalds, the campaign to save Spitalfields market, the ploughshare group smashing up military equipment, the union campaign against car factory closures... etc.

i don't think that there is a massive evil state conspiracy thing that must be smashed. I think that structural reform of the businesses and governments, to be held accountable to laws made by democratic goverment, in a society where knowledge is freely exchanged could pretty much be utopia. Of course thats idealistic claptrap, but a few hundred years ago so was abolishing slavery or giving the vote to the masses.

Du Pont are a scary corporation, but lycra is a useful product. Nestle's powdered milk to third world divison should be much more effectivley regulated, but destroying the whole company would mean no more chunky kit-kats. In an ideal world, the WTO and World Bank would be engines of investment and free enterprise - offering micro-loans to subsistence farmers and regulating capital flow to ensure economic stability.

It's too simplistic to think that a revolution or a conversation can sort everything out. Individually being positive can't hurt, although I also get very cynical now and again. Cynics and critics are welcome and necessary, but even Bill Hicks and Noam Chomskey can see the humour and the optimism as clearly as the false structures and greedy short-sighted goals of big power and money. A cynic who sees all and does nothing might as well go back to the herd and watch telly forever.

er.. end of ramble. I still find it really hard to put what i mean here into words that make sense.

suggestions on a postcard please...

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS

purplejenny

x

Hmmmmmmm...........

Before there can be any kind of global revolution the will for such a revolution has to spread around and reach everybody. And if that can actually be done at all, it can be done with minimal violence. I do not believe that ANYBODY - including the bosses of the big evil corporations - is really intrinsically evil. I think that the most evil people are merely selfish, shortsighted and misinformed. And those attitudes can change. People can change to an incredible extent. An attitude change can happen globally, and it can and should happen spontaneously with a little bit of encouragement from those who care and who know what's going wrong. Maximal interaction and communication between different people who live in different countries will help bring this about. The internet and its technology is not in the hands of any single corporation or any single group. It is very rapidly becoming more and more accessible to people. I am a very poor third-world person but even I have access to it. Soon many more third-worlders and poor and ignored people will have access to it. That in itself is already a revolution.