h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am somewhat against a President, but not so much as I am against the presence of a monarch, despite the fact that they are not much more than a museum exhibit, sent arround the world on tours.

A president despite the fact that they would probably be an agent for the military industrial complex would at least be up for re-election, I would happily have president Blair rather than a monarch even though I despise the man at least I would know that If I could persuade enough of my compatriots that he was despicable we could replace him with someone else.

OK I know they would probably be as despicable as him but at least they wouldn't be floating round in the British collective unconscious like a malignant endorsement of inherited power and wealth.

The monarchy makes me feel that this country is using 21st century technology to hold up a medievil (Pun intended) aristocracy as a smoke screen to protect vested interests which could well do with being brought into the light of day.

Oh O I'm off on one sorry..

Whilst we are at it though what is all this unwritten constitution rubbish, sounds a bit like an unwritten contract to me and my grandad always said an unwritten contract isn't worth the paper its not written on.

The linking of church and state was Constantines device to establish control over his empire, Henery VIII used it to legitimise his pecadillo's and his power. Now it's used to justify the 'unwritten constitution.'

It all sounds a bit like the divine right of kings and we lopped one of their heads of that 350 odd years ago, we should never have invited them back, despite the fact that Cromwell was just as bad.

Thats the problem with the British we are always throwing the baby out with the bath water, we got rid of Charles we should have just done the same thing with Cromwell not invite another Charles back into the country.....

Rants on into the dissapearing twilight, fade to black

fade back up


and another thing...........

Unwritten consitution? No, uncodified constitution.

Its written, but different parts are on different documents.

Hi Toxxie

How would I characterise my relationship? I'm pretty sure we've been over this one before, somewhere in the last 19k, but hey I'm always up for another go

My relationship is one of friendship, respect, honour and love. It isn't one that demands my unthinking obedience, or one where one party demands worship or threatens eternal damnation. I treat my gods as revered teachers, as I do the spirits of the land and of my ancestors.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hi SD ,

Just to set the records straight and introduce another piece of strangeness into our endless debate let me talk about Jerusalem the song.

As you may know it was written by the superlative artist Wiliam Blake. What you may not know is that he was one of the early Chiefs of the Ancient Order of Druids (founded in the late 18th century - so ancient in belief, not time).

He was fascinated with the tales of Joseph of Arimathea, the Grail and Glastonbury. In those days he was considered a romantic, today he'd be a new age hippy . He was reputed to use both cocaine and opium to inspire his writing.

I wonder if the WI know that a stoned pagan hippy wrote their favourite anthem.

Blessings,
Matholwch /\\.

I must say that one person's rousing, triumphant and glorious score sounds to another harsh, blaring and unsubtle.

Changeling

>>>>You will have heard the monotheist drones mumbled in most Christian or Islamic places of worship, or produced for things like 'Songs of Praise'.<<

>>Have to disagree here! Some Christian music, certainly that on Songs of Praise, can be boring and unimaginative. But other songs...oh, other songs can hardly be read without your heart soaring with the joy and the wonder and the beauty of it all.<<

And how long is it since you pottered along to the mid-morning service at a CofE church and sat amid the sparse congregation and listened to them trying to sing this to the accompaniment of a retired piano tuner who plays the tune half the speed it should be and flat, and wondered about the fact that nothing decent has been written since the Victorians?

>>O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;

As someone who doesn't believe in an all-powerful triple-O god, this leaves me cold, I'm afraid

>>I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,

I see the same stars, and I speak out my praise to Thunor.

>>Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

And I don't need a Saviour, because my gods do not inflict the idea of original sin on anyone. I have a choice, I am not damned if I disbelieve

And nor are you

>>Try and forget the old-fashioned language and read the words. You can't tell me *that* is a mumbling drone!<<

I have sung in many choirs - even on Songs of Praise, in fact and I can tell you that yes, in most cases, it is sung as a mumbling drone.

Jez

In defence of christian music I think it is necessary to mention gospel music.

I like Jerusalem good rousing tune and chest swelling bombastic words, but it doesnt conform to what most people like in music I suppose.

I like modern and folk music more probably because the writers were free of the religious patronage that many gospel and classical writers were to some degree confined by.

one love

Drone, Jez?
Have you been to a church lately? Some of the more modern-thinking Christian churches have amazing wonderful music - everything from semi-orchestral to the standard drums/guitars/keyboard rock bands. (Don't be put off by, or assume it's all about what i call the pipe organ Presbyterian dirges...)

Yes, Changeling, i agree with you. It's awesome...

<>

Is it though? If it is, why? The actions of humans, no doubt. If God were to step in and stop we humans from making a mess of things, then there'd be a master-slave relationship to complain of!

Wow, Holst's "Planets" one of my absolutely most favourite and glorious pieces of . (I have three versions, two tapes and one CD.) It's awesome! (About astrology, apparently..)

Some of the more modern-thinking Christian churches have amazing wonderful music....rock bands.


Adelaide we have had some discussions in the past where we have both put our opinions but I am TELLING YOU, without doubt or fear of contradiction. That the words "christian" and "rock" should never go in the same sentence. Let alone next to each other

Anyone who plays it should have their instruments confiscated.

Anyone who dosent learn from that should have their hands confiscated.

Its the only decent thing to do.

one love

I went to a church not so long ago to a Christening, and they had a rock band there. For some reason it reminded me of Weezer? To be honest a lot of amatuer rock bands do...

But the priest was quite good on acoustic guitar.

I think Christian rock bands should be limited to only writing songs about Revelations and the Old Testament.

Well I heard there was a secret chord, that David played and it pleased the lord...

BouncyBitInTheMiddle

Personaly I believe the secret chord was probably A B minor ninth much beloved of Hendrix and which opens up a whole range of possible scales to play, but this may reveal a guitarists bias

Useless item of information no 9234



Rock and Roll originaly began in churches particularly Baptist ones and particularly in the southern states of America during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. These were as you might expect in predominantly African American populations. The name refers to the practice of members of the congregation standing up to sing hymns and swaying about more and mre untill eventually they were dancing in the asiles. Clearly this can be linked to the heritage of the cultural group.

However:

This tradition can also be lnked to the Quakers and the Shakers (Two Different groups) who's practices were somewhat similar.

Therefore:

Rock and Roll is like most things a product of a complex historical process and many would argue that it's return to formal christian worship is not only desirable, but somewhat inevitable.




Personaly I cannot get away from the feeling that the music whatever inspires it has a habit of somewhat outgrorowing it's original intent.

Jerusalem is most often viewed as a great patriotic hymn, and on occasions I have heard it played at half the proper speed and sounding dreadful, (even the best music played by someone who either cannot play well, or plays for a different audience than the listener would claim to belong to, will always sound dreadful).

However on reading William Blakes words, it doesn't seem all that patriotic, in fact it sounds downright critical of Britain and it's 'Dark Satanic Mills'.

"I think Christian rock bands should be limited to only writing songs about Revelations and the Old Testament."

Hear hear!

It always strikes me as interesting that writing a really good love song or a song in praise of anything for that matter is massively difficult and on the whole ends up sounding like the musical equivalent of a treacle overdose. Prehaps that's why the devil has all the best tunes.

Incidentaly how many of us have had the conversation about how it would be boring to be in heaven and how Hell would be far more interesting(If a little painful at times) Prehaps this tells us something about the human condition

Hi Bouncy,

I *love* that song and am determined I will waltz with Jordan one day while it is playing - perhaps at a hootoo meet?

Christian rock? Nope. Does not work. Ever.

I remember shortly after they changed the RC masses from latin to English (something I was sad about - masses always sounded much better in latin to me) they tried to 'modernize' further by having 'folk masses' with some pathetic strumming guitarist and his long-haired vocalist doing the hymns. Ick.

Meanwhile, I agree with blicky that gospel music is totally HOT. It can get you out of your chair and praising the Lord even if you are an atheist.

As for pipe organs - love 'em! To me they are perfect for religious type music and not 'dirgy' at all. I went to a couple of pipe organ recitals last year and was totally blown away. Apparently Mozart once played the pipe organ at the cathedral in Sevilla. That is one concert I am sorry I missed.

az

Matholwch - Resident Druid of this Parish /|\.

Re William Blake

This chap as you say was a fine artist and turned a fair poem or two in his time. It doesn't awefully surprise me to hear about his other off duty pass times.

His role as Arch Patriot (See my post on Jerusalem) has always bothered me as I suspect he would be quite up in arms about some of the attributes of the green and pleasant land of this era as he was in his own.

But this seems to be a part of he sanitising of artists and poets through the ages, carravagio for instance drunk philandering patricide,

Mussorgski Drunk power mad Army officer,

Mozart Drunk Womaniser, Arogant in the extreme

Byron, 'mad bad and dangerous to know' (Gangsta rap has nothing on him) opium addict adulterer (Best freinds Wife) part time arms smuggler, gunman and revolutionary ect ect

And we won't explore Lewis Carrol (Or the rev Doddson)too carefully suffice to say Laudenum and Alice.

It also interests me that tere a number of saints that the same could be said of. Someone said to me recently that the difference between a saint and a poet was that a saint finaly decides he knows what the difference is between good and bad.

I'm not all that sure about that but St Francis of Asissi certainly had a helluva interesting early life and contemplation and meditation seemes to have had a fairly similar effect on his 'visions' as some well known narcotics.

Don't know where I am going with this but there you go Ho Hum....

Hey, Stronium Dog, where is your photo?

F119314?thread=421977


az

ps
You too toxx!

Its that little bit 4 and a half minutes in that gets me. When he goes silent for a second and then builds up again.

Incidentally I saw Martin Grech live, he did that song wot was on the Lexus advert and is frankly an amazing singer, and he did an acoustic cover of 'Dream Brother'. 'nuff said.

I was under the impression that rock, or at least rock and roll, had come out of R&B? And the origin of the phrase 'rock and roll' that I'd heard was a lot more euphamistic.