h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Re the Stones.

I grew up in Buxton Derbyshire which is approximately 4 miles from Tunstead Quarry, at the time it was reputed to be the second largest hole in the ground in the world, I don't know if it still is.

My paternal grandmothers father was a 'getter' at Tunstead in the 1910-30s ie he and other men went onto the blasted pile of rubble and dislodged the precariously ballanced blocks of limestone which might fall on any men working below, he retired in 1938 and was given a silver watch by the management, partly because of his long service but mostly because he was the first 'getter' in the history of the quarry ever to retire, all the others died 'accidental' deaths.

The Peak national Park is the shape it is with the funny hole in it because when it was initially set up the management of Tunstead lobbied to have the quarry excluded from the park, if it had been included all quarrying would have had to stop. In my teens I can remember people in Buxton who provided most of the workforce at that time widely belived that ICI who owned the quarry paid upwards of £500,000 per month in fines concerning their practice on issues such as health and safety and the illegal enclosure of land and quarrying of stone, because it was cheaper than obeying the law.

I understand that there is a need for building materials and that quarrying will probably have to happen somewhere but I am somewhat suspicious about whether enough is being done about developing suitable alternatives and recycling of previous used materials. The last I heard ICI were involved in a plan to Fell a Scottish mountain in a way which sounded similar to cutting down a tree, they anticipated removing the whole mountain in about 10 years. Where that might lead is anyones guess.

I am often wonder about the various stone circles in the whole of britain, the question about how the were or were not worked. I wonder if the definition of worked might be at times too narrow, or at others too broad. My History of Avebury is a bit rusty but seem to remember something about stones being placed in alternation of square and diamond shaped stones and that some of these may well have been worked to obtain the appropriate shape, and to allow them to be moved over the 10 miles or so they may well have been moved. I for one am reluctant to belive that they would have been completely unworked. The shaping however was clearly not as extensive as the working at Stone Henge.

In Derbyshire legend has as far as I know held that the stones of Dove Henge were regular and even, but we cannot check this out because a Methodist minister of Dove Holes parish took it into his head to blow them up with gunpowder in the 17th or 18th century (I forget which)because they were the devils work.

Another priest is blamed for the demolition of Arbor Low reputedly getting his parishioners to push over the stones, some archeologists have suggested that the stones may also have been blown down.

I wonder if it is possible to make a distinction between 'worked' and roughly shaped, when stones have been subjected to the elements for such long periods of time. Interestingly in another part of Derbyshire on Kinder Scout (Possibly from saxon meaning child's haven) there is a place which during my childhood we called Wind Henge. 2000 feet up on the moor (Approx) there is a rock outcrop of gritstone (one of many) which has clearly been erroded over thousands of years and probably looks more like Carnac than a henge if the truth be known but the shapes and the way stones are ballanced on each other is quite eiry. Some of the stones appear very different from local drawings of them made 200 years ago (I am taking it on trust they are the same stones but have no reason to doubt this) I wonder if the same can be said about the 'real' henges and if detecting rough shaping can at all be possible.

Nine ladies is one stone circle (Not a Henge) that the stones certainly look as if they are worked, of the 4 stones which remain rectangular and diamond shaped blocks are apparent. I might be wrong but if memory serves the circle is belived to have been erected in abut 2000 BCE

As I understand it 10 miles is not a mean distance for a 120 ton block of limestone to be moved, possibly taking 20 years, building the stone circles probably took generations, certainly the bigger henges.

Although they were of surface stone the Blocks at Arbor Low were probably brought from as far as Edale Valley, at least one archeologist has suggested that the largest of them 50 tons aprox was brought from the mouth of peak cavern, which as the largest cave mouth in britain probably had some significance to people at that time. the journey would have been about 15 miles, a big chunk of limestone up a steep gradient would have been no mean feat in itself, if they took the easier gradient the journey might well have been closer to 25 miles.

I am inclined to belive that most stones would have come from as close as possible, that makes absolute sense to me, but it also makes sence that there would be special stones, ie the cave stone at Arbor Low and the blue stones of stone henge (Reputedly these feel warm to the touch even on a cold day) things which imbued magic into the work being created.

All fascinating stuff, what I really find hard though is that It is if anything even more impossible to know what exactly was and wasn't done than in other circumstances because there isn't even a text to criticise, just big lumps of rock, which despite rational thought and criticism still ooze magic.

The point about unworked, vs roughly hewn seems to relate to quarried, vs suface split stone as well

I have often thought that not enough thought has been given to
ice sledges , a simple track would be suffucient and the planet
was a lot colder in those times plus heating cold rock would also be used as method for spliting , simple techniquies that are stilled used in todays world.

Thanks, SD. How often the strayings off topic are the most fascinating features of this thread. The Peak seems second only to Wales in terms of what UK regulars here have in common.

toxx

Hi, LTP. Quite a bit has been said about the famous cart tracks/ruts of Malta. They appear to have been deliberately dug in the bare rock and used to facilitate the transport of quarried rock on hand-drawn sleds to the coast. There are various items on the net, but here's one link: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/magrosalibarchaeo/

toxx

Yes and of those track are filled with grease , or water allowed to freeze. A large block is easy to move , orx or other beasts pulling sled......

Relatively small amounts of stone were quarried in the Stone and Bronze Ages, mainly for use as axes. The few sites that have been identified have been done so more from the geological evidence rather than what can be seen on the ground.

To put things into perspective, all of the quarried stone from the Stone and Bronze Ages throughout Britain is far less than that which is being proposed to be taken from this one quarry in the Peak District National Park.


stoneageman

l.t.p.:

>...and the planet was a lot colder in those times

The planet was not colder in the Neolithic and Bronze Age, when the stone circles were built.


stoneageman

re the removal of a scottish mountain by ici...the story of mohammed comes to mind

How fascinating

S.D - Buxton is a quaint town - it's been years since I've been there (25 ish or so give or take)! We used to live at the top of the hill from the old cinema, you could just about see Solomons Temple in the winter, lovely hiking district

There is a type of stone that only comes from the Peak district and no where else in world - called Blue John.

That was very informative about the stones, I enjoyed reading it

Yes scientists may claim mean or average but consider the effects that (x billion) alive today comapared with (xmillion) alive the.
Now dureing sunlight the whole earth is warmed by the sun, then at night it cools down, this means man tends to light fires to obtain warmth and for cooking ect, now given that a lot of the warmth from our fires also radiate outwards ,slowing down the rate our earth(and structures on it) cools down at night ,it therefore seems logical to me it must of been a lot colder then than now.Especialy when you take into account populus distribution then as now


when the stone circles were built.(8-10 thousand years or 16+)

to me the more poignant fact is where is this stone going and why is it really necessary for us as a species to ao attempt reshaping this planet

Whether we have an effect on the Earth's temperature via global warming is debatable, but the heat produced from fires is not going to make a difference to climate, its just too small a factor. The energy for those fires comes from the Sun in a roundabout way anyway.

Isn't it awful about Madrid, some people really are despicable Why do they call attention to their extremeist views by hurting so many people intentionally it just makes the majority maddened and deaf to anything they have to say thereafter...

oppression breeds violence.consider pizzaro

maniacal vixen - not enuff fruit and veg

Was that up the top of Holker road near the fc ground + police station?

I lived on Nunsfield road for most of my childhood, with Corbar Cross looming in the distance. I was six before I realised it wasn't Calgary and that my mothers love of the Hymn Jerusalem wasn't because we lived there.

I used to like walking all over, Goyt regularly, but over the tops to Castleton and Edale too.

N.B Holker road was a great hill if I was in a mood, start stomping up it angry at the bottom, by the time I got to the top I was too tierd to care about being angry any more.

Quaint is a good word to describe Buxton, but by the time I was 24 Boring was a good one too, (Especially after the cinema closed and they pulled it down) I suppose I had home town blues though, it's not that big a town and it can be wearing when everyone knows who you are and who your dad, grandad, great grandad, grandmother ect are, what they did, who to and who still holds a grudge.

I sometimes miss it now though, I go back every now and again to see freinds there and to walk arround my favourite bits.

I dont know about Madrid yet but, if it's another one of these mad attempts to force someone to agree with something by blowing them up, I dont understand why after all these years of it continually failing to get anyone who tries it what they want why people keep trying it.

Malcom X started out his part in the civil rights movement saying 'by any means necissary' shortly before he died he was talking about the need for botherly love and had at least once said that non-violence was an effective way of resisting oppression. There must be some kind of lesson there about the best way being the non violent way. Ghandi (despite his faults) brought down the biggest empire the world has ever seen with it.

ah yes beaucholic remeniscence