h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thanks, Alji. The example doesn't matter. I'd be just as happy with Planck's constant or whatever. It's just one example among many possibilities.

Noggin. Concerning your freewill thoughts; I say we are free to act as we choose. I say nothing about volition, or cause and effect. Is there something wrong with that, or is it insufficient in some way?

Noggin. Good to hear so much from you. I don't care that the c and c are in dynamic equilibrium. Nothing is changing, which was my point.

Would you care to define a 'thing' so I can avoid false examples like the gravitational constant.

The electron is defined by its mass, charge and other properties along with the observations made in cloud/bubble chambers or whatever we happen to be using. It IS something with those properties.

Fnord. I have and said nothing against Az. I did argue with what she said. Isn't that what this board and thread are for?

Thanks Math

Just read yr posting to me, glad to hear you are also flawed
hey, I still think you must be a great guy!!! yep, me too, can,t stand intolerance, which is why I am giving up on this thread, it seems to be rife here!!!!

If only there were more respect, love and tolerance for others our world may just become a far more peaceful place, ahhh well, I doubt if it will happen!!!



Jane

You're welcome!

>>Do you believe that wealth should be shared equally and that our planet's wildlife protected.<<

ABSOLUTELY I do! How could anyone reasonably not believe it?

Rosi, I don't believe that it is necessary to take religion out of the kind of work you do - there are church groups working in that area - back in the 1930s, Dorothy Day (Catholic Worker) started communities in the USA.

Equality is fine, and one day in the far far far future, that may be the relationship people can have with God - but not yet. If God is Creator (by whatever means!) then we are not on a level of equality, being created!

Noggin

MEn = god

You got there quicker with the gravity not being an object ! of course we could say that gravity is caused by physical laws.
therefore gravity is an effect of those laws.
we can affect gravity in those chamber things, so it is possible to change it.

Oops getting my electro magnetic fields and gravity mixed up.
No excuses.

Toxx
So this is a hypothetical cushion then with an 'always been' cannonball , It isn't a reality though. even if I go with that concept it will still be effected by time and change.

Barb
It's not really straying, we're discusiing the cause and effect of a god created universe..or not.

God
Sorry if I misquoted you
Doing that thing where I'm answering posts and making jam at the same time does not aid for complete concentration.
A woman multi tasking.

How do you know there is no boundary to this particular Universe?

infinite adj

1. without any limits that can be measured or realized

2. very great in size, number, degree, or extent

3. greater in number, size, or scope than any arbitrarily assigned value

4. extending indefinitely or having unlimited spatial extent

5. having an infinite number of terms or elements

6. able to be put into a one-to-one correspondence with a subset of itself

n

something that is infinite, for example, space

Infinite n

used to refer to God.

I'm not implying that finite IS change, It is caused by change and infinity is caused by non change.
To me the definition of infinite is something that cannot change it's basic structure, other wise it is not infinite.

The mass of an object can change when an effect is applied the other time is not an object it's a method of measurement of change.
subatomic particles as you say can be 'repositioned' by external influences.

Toxx
Planck's constant ?

Thanks Rosi.

Toxx:

I believe that I have free will. It is theoretically possible for me to decide to rape children. That possibility has not become an actuality, for I have no desire to do harm and no sexual preference for children. It doesn't mean that my free will has been compromised, or that I need to rape children to be sure that I have free will.

Extending the argument, all people have free will (to greater or lesser extents). It is theoretically possible for "evil" to be done. That possibility does not have to be an actuality.

Therefore an omnipotent God in setting the parameters for the universe, could engineer some way in which people would be ABLE to choose evil but would have a PREFERENCE for avoiding it.

Bod

Hi Jane

Please don't unsubscribe from this thread. We need your input and insight, especially from a Christian perspective. A long while back I was the only person of a spiritual nature still participating in this thread. For about 1000 posts I pretty much battled on on my own, even having to defend Christianity etc .

We need to have abalance of the spiritual and the secular is this thread is to continue to thrive. There is intolerance here, but how will tolerance survive if we let intolerance reign?

People learn about tolerance, respect and love through the example of others. If you go that will be one less to fight the good fight.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

everything i have said has mainly been ignored here.

i am been very upset at the comments against christianity. please do not misquote the bible or come here to spread your prejudices about christians. christ never taught that we should not love christians what about the roman who had his servant healed? also the should not be about just the existence about god but about gods. i have written an entry about liberation theology which to laymen terms meaning siding with the oppressed. what about the harm that multi-national companies do and military juntas. you cannot blame religioin on everything it did not cause the second world war. what about the harm that is being done to our enviroment every day. would you like people to make uneducated prejudiced remarks about you. of course not but you are doing it becasue christians are soft target and won't answer back.


kat

Hi Kat,

I'm sorry if you feel that Christians are being attacked on this thread. I think that if you read a little more of it you will realise that this is not the case. For the most part the researchers here are respectful of other beliefs, although some use debate techniques which may appear aggressive at first glance - though this is just a powerful mechanism for encouraging somebody to scrutinize their beliefs carefully (making sure their houses are built on rock not sand).

As for the debate centering around the Abrahamic view of God, this seemed to have been the intention of the original question since it referred to "God" rather than "gods" implying the god of monotheistic religious cultures.

In fact we have discussed "gods" as well; perhaps you'd like to check some of the neo-pagan posts (cf Matholwch).

I'm also sorry if you think that your posts have been mainly ignored. As you'll have gathered, it's hard to keep track of everything going on here. Would you like to re-post some of your main points? And if you'd like some one-on-one discussion please feel free to post to my personal space as well.

Blessings,

Bod

Hi Moth,

"Oh ps Bod
There is no free will of choice if the choices are limited.
If we have no otion but to chose good, because that is all there is, we have no free will."

But we COULD all choose good, not through limited choices but through our preferences. I can choose only good whilst having free will, therefore EVERYBODY can choose only good whilst having free will. There does not HAVE to be anybody who wishes to do "evil".

As for the "evil helps us apprecite good" argument, I find that a bit worrying for a couple of reasons:

(1) "Do you appreciate your life? How can you, if you have not experienced your own death?" seems to be a similar argument I think. Yet I suspect that you appreciate life. And I think that's reasonable.

(2) If you experienced no pain or suffering in your life, would you self-harm so that you could appreciate the good things more?!

Bod

bod making generalised comments like christians not to love non-christians is not true - i also talked about liberation theology which also ignored and about the iona community. i am a practising and be told that i go around converting people is not true. christians are not all the same, where all different and it's not a purely western religion and it covers various cultures which is another point that was ignored. remember the bible has been translated serveral times and sometimes the meaning is lost in the translation. i am not a hypocryt.

kat

Hi Barb,

You might like to know that the Pope thought that Mother Teresa needed better transportation, so arranged for her to be given a flashy car.

She auctioned it off and gave the proceeds to the poor...