h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Why does this feel like deja vu!

Chauncey have you read through all the posts in this thread?


Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards @ U197895)

Most of them. Why?
Chauncey

BTW it was the volley ball that caused the tendonitis.

Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards @ U197895)

Hello Chauncey; welcome to the conversation.
I don't think anyone has a problem with your stating where you're coming from, but a bit more engagement with the questions, replies and opinions of others wouldn't go amiss. If you've read a reasonable amount of the backlog (all of it would be a long job), you'll know that I'm a religious sceptic. Now, you may disagree with my point of view, and that's fair enough. I may even be wrong (Famous Nog in uncertainty shock horror!). But I've been thinking about these questions in a serious way for twice as long as you've been alive, or pretty nearly. They are not snap judgements, and I have good reasons for holding them, whether these ultimately turn out to be valid or not. If you're going to persuade me to change my mind you have to give me better reasons for doing so than those I already have for not doing so. (And vice versa of course.)

Jordan: I was joking about exam standards. As if you didn't know

Insight: If God is omnipotent why would it be impossible for Him to construct a universe whose laws of operation made the genesis of life and the process of evolution a natural outcome of the operation of those laws?

Sorry to hear about the tendonitis Alji.

Noggin

Insight may be very good at maths, good for him, someone needs to be.
However I am not particularly good at maths but I am still clever.
Bear in mind '...you've met mathematicians, and wondered... how they got that way...'

Chauncey: no one on this thread cares much where the others are coming from in the sense that this will affect how they respond to their posts. (It might give us an understanding of background but that is all.) Someone else's faith, alone, is not enough to convince.
BTW where did you get the bugs etc. thing from? (re. hell) Several, notably Alji but including Insight even, have discussed the Biblical lack of foundation for the fire-and-that style of Hell.
Besides, I quite like bugs. Especially spiders. Hence you can't have a hell for everyone.

I guess you are right. It was a quick response and I wrote the first thing that came to my head. So I am going to start over. I have learned over the 16 short years that I have been alive that hell is complete and total solitution. I have done a lot of research in this, because I like you at one time used to be a sceptic. I couldn't understand how God could let people die and get hurt. I still don't understand it fully and I guess you can call me asinine because I believe full-heartedly in something I don't understand and can't prove, but I think that I am right and I don't plan on changing my mind.
Chauncey

If you were talking to me you are correct it was Volleyball that caused the tendonitis in my Rotator Cuff.
Chauncey

Chauncey, what did they tell you to do about the tendonitis?

There are some websites about it - look them up. Like you, I think your coach is wrong to expect you to play.


Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards @ U197895)

im no bible basher but i believe we all need something to hang onto in our lives..
and by believing in god this is something we can all have in our lives..
maybe to feel at rest sometimes at times when we are feeling low..
so yes i believe there is a god even when bad things happen that we cant relate too or understand..
in believing it gives me hope for the future of my children..


alex

I admit it, I haven't actually read all the posts, so I might be hitting on issues already dealt with, however, being in my own little subjective world anyways, what does it really change?

I'm hung over. Now, God, or no God, I believe in one simple thing all thought, on the day after, is submitted to a swimmy ride and an unclear ending once it actually comes out!

Only clear thing I can say is this : I want a coffee.

Seriously though, I mostly believe in myself and that there isn't actually some "higher power" guiding or watching or making sure my shoes are tied the right way or any other nonsense of the kind. However, this is all done without offense to those who DO believe in such things. I think if it helps you go through life in total amazement with everything that happens in your life, Great! Enjoy!

Sorry if this is all not as clear as I thought I was originally going to try and make it!

Hello Chauncey and welcome to the philosophical merry-go-round.
You don't have to read back far to find my posts on the Christian concept of hell and the road there. But if you are unable to find them I will precis my basic questions:

1. What happens to those people who never had the chance to accept your god because they either died before the message arrived, or never met a Christian?

2. What happens to those that lived good lives in every respect, but chose not to accept your God?

According to what passes as logic amongst your fellow Christians on this list they go to Hell. Please tell me in what way is this evidence of a loving and merciful creator?

I suggest you return to that hidebound anthology of dogma that you call the Bible and re-read Exodus, Leviticus and Judges. If you accept God and his Son, you must also accept his laws, because if you don't live by the Word of God, you are going to be in the Pit - right next to me and Mahatma Ghandhi.

One final question. If you have no intention of changing your mind and are wholeheartedly sure that you are right, what are you doing here? To play in this corner of existence an open mind and a ready wit are absolutely essential. Reading back you will find that preaching does no good with this happy band of rationalists, they want proof, or a damned good facsimile of it.

However, if you are just 'pretty sure' you are right and want to try and prove it (to yourself at least, if not 'us') come on in and get down and dirty!

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Yeah I guess if you want to go through life not believing in anything then go ahead, but I can't live like that. It just doesn't work. Oh and yes I have been to the doctor. I am now playing volleyball full time and it feels a lot better. But anyways back to the main subject, I am so awestruck how somebody cannot believe in anything. Maybe you can give me some insight.
Chauncey

Hi Heaven's Angel .
You are of course right, and you don't have to be a 'bible-basher' to see it.

As one of the other deluded souls on this list I'd like to ask the big, bad and mean science gang what it is then that gives their life purpose, direction and meaning?

Also, if you guys win and belief in a spiritual dimension to life evaporates, what is to keep 'civilisation' from just degenerating into an amoral orgy of self-gratification? What is out there that can replace religion or personal spirituality and bring meaning to people's lives?

Answers on a h2g2 postcard to this list .
Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Chauncey (great name ) wrote:
"I am so awestruck how somebody cannot believe in anything. Maybe you can give me some insight."

For me atheism is a personal thing. I just do not have need for a God. Not to support me through life, nor to give me hope, nor to explain how life, the universe and everything came to be. Actually, as a scientist I can only really be an agnostic (I happily admit that nothing is impossible), but I also loathe sitting on the fence, so I stubbornly declare that God does not exist. As I said, it's a personal thing. Chauncey, can you answer me this question in light of my response: Why do you need a God?



Ste

I personnally don't think that there is anything out there that can fill the void that believeing in God fills. Yes I realize that I will probably not change many of your minds, but who knows maybe I will make at least one of you think about it and that would be worth all the bashing that I go through.
Chauncey

Could you describe that "void" for us? How does God fill it for you? I am in no way criticising your personal beliefs, and I am not expecting you to attempt to convince me to change my beliefs. I'm just interested

Chauncey, Matholwch is a Druid. His apostasy (loss of faith) was in Catholic Christianity.
Druidry is one of the oldest faiths on Earth and it is my personal opinion that it was brought to Britain by the ancient Hindu astromoner/priests many thousands of years ago. The Verdic Hindus were called Dravida which is pronounced Dr'wid'.

Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards @ U197895)

Why do I need God? I need God because without him I could not get through a single day. I am only 16 but I go through some hard things on a regular basis. Without God I would not have made it through my Grandfather's death. Without God I would not have made it through today. God gives me my strength. Without Him I feel that there is a whole in my heart. When I am not in touch with God I am in a bad mood, I hate the world, and I hate myself. I don't like to live like that. Without God I am nothing.
Chauncey

Tying shoelaces - as if he doesn't have better things to do! (I'm getting to enjoy doing that - just hope the wind doesn't change direction...)

Of course I knew you were joking, Noggin! As if I would ever make such a mistake... OK, I aimed my reply to be quasi-serious/pseudo-humerous. Somehow, though, I can't quite concieve of you doing badly in your exams. Did you not study or something?

Well, I hope that soon I can put this whole creation/science thing into perspective. I thought a bit about it, and decided that the main problem was that creationists are making an assumption first, then setting about trying to prove it at the expense of objectivity. It makes no sense to call suchan analysis scientific. However, creationists and evolutionists are putting each other at loggerheads - creationists: evolutionists are trying to destroy faith; evolutionists: creationists are trying to destroy objectivity. So each wants to belittle the other, logically, publically and politically. The result is a tension that has no reason to be there. Creationism should be taught in religion, evolution in science. However, it ought to be made clear that the former was developed to counter evolution, and that the latter is only a theory. Discussion over the two ought to be held in philosophy class - but the basic premises of each ought to be detailed.

It's rather like that study by Terman(?) a while back, which he claimed demonstrated that gifted children showed better mental adjustment than their peers by misinterpreting the figures - badly. Actually, it showed quite the opposite - though whether his misuse of data was intentional or not is a matter of debate, it is ceratin that his aim affected his judgement.

So what do /you/ lovely people think? Anything you say can and will be taken down as evidence against you in a much-procrastinated article...

And I can understand your anger - I've been sarcastic at times, and I've lapsed into little rants of my own. I just don't like to see someone - much less a friend - being targetted. But I know that you're all going to be nice and happy - if sometimes direct. No one wants this thread to become intimidating or for researchers to become unsociable. 'Shiny people...'

That's all for now...

- Jordan

When there is that void, I am angry, I hate everything including myself. I am just alone and I hate that feeling.
Chauncey