h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

More about 'Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus' @ http://www.lightstreamers.com/kimball.htm

Alji the Magus

Yes I think religion is redundent now.
I think it holds us back.
As for morality, should this be a 'controlled thing'? Can't we think for ourselves?
When does "Thou shalt not kill' become, 'Thou shalt kill who I tell you to ?' The first is God's word and the second has become religions word.

The ideals of most religions are good! Religion isn't redundent, its just not something to fight wars about

Hass, Jung defined intuition as, "...the function that mediates perceptions in an unconscious way...In intuition a content presents itself whole and complete, without our being able to explain or discover how this content came into existence". See more @

http://www.cgjungpage.org/articles/clough1.html

Alji the Magus

Atari that must be very true for you, but the fact of the matter is that religion is often used as an excuse for war and to make mankind divided.
Again I am not speaking about belief in a God or creator, but formalised religions.
Yes there are good ideals in most religions, but the road to proverbial hell is also paved with good intentions, or so they say.

Yes Alji I am intuative, as you are. As most people are, but the thing is that we should perhaps listen to those intuitions more often.

I was re reading your last link Alji.
It seems that the media and politicians have taken this on board, and we see more and more the 'manipulation' of the individual.
Since W. first mentioned Iraq, it has seemed to me that there will be a war in the new year.
There doesn't seem to be a day go by, that we don't see an article about how we can expect to be victims of weapons of mass destruction, any time any where. Presumably this is to instill enough fear in the individual to back the war.
I suppose that Afghanistan was 'easier' to bomb back to the stone age, because we could all see the effect of 911, but how did this situation get diverted to Iraq?
Bin Laden doesn't like the Iraqi's very much either. (not fundamental enough)
I only hope that this doesn't turn out to be the Christmas that we'll all learn to remember as the last before the world went completely mad.
If I read the information right, it seems that Saddam Hussein is a one man despot, so I have to wonder why so many people are going to have to die to stop this mad with power individual. It feels as if the 'evil' comes from the leader not the people of Iraq. and yet if we bomb the civilian population once again, how can we expect them to feel anything but hatred for the West. We let them down badly last time with the impression that we'd help them topple their dictator, and left them to be slaughtered.
I don't think it's possible to 'win' the minds of the individual with war fare.

It does, so I don't force religion on others, as this only leads to harm.

Atari
and in that you must be right...but there are others who would force religion on people they wish to comtrol

I like this bit from Alji's link;

"In the book God's Debris, Scott Adams says that practically nobody believes in God. He defends the assertion by writing, "If people believed in God they would live every minute of their lives in support of that belief. Rich people would give their wealth to the needy. Everyone would be frantic to determine which religion was the true one. No one could be comfortable in the thought that they might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal damnation, or bad reincarnation, or some other unthinkable consequence. People would dedicate their lives to converting others to their religions." (Adams, S 2001) Since this is obviously not the case, Adams concludes, nobody (in America, where he is writing) really believes in God. That may be true for America or maybe we just trust the process, but it is obviously not true in all parts of the world."

Good point, but about the quote:
"Everyone would be frantic to determine which religion was the true one. No one could be comfortable in the thought that they might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal damnation, or bad reincarnation, or some other unthinkable consequence."
As all religions come from God, who's to say how a certain religion is better than others.

Atari

Ah, there's the rub, as they say. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who firmly believe that only their own religion is the one true faith - and they all cite very similar justifications for doing so, which is one reason why I personally am very dubious about the lot of them.

Religions, whatever truths or falsities they contain, ultimately tell us more about people than they do (in any reliable sense) about God(s)

Noggin

I don't know what to say to that......

Justin is sure proof of what Nogg says.

Alji the Magus

What do you think of John Luke (Steve) who claims Justin to be a program

Steve the programmer, aka Hoovooloo. This was a hoax designed to draw attention to Justin's style of communication. Justin is not a computer program. End of story.

Noggin

OK glad I could make sure of that

Isn't it true that if you follow a religion, rather than say a way of life, you are obliged to feel that your's is the only right and proper way, otherwise you wouldn't be following it. ?
The problem happens, I think, when a religion incorporates into it's 'truths' the fact that it's the task of a member to 'recruit' or advise others that they are wrong in some way. Some other religions don't recruit, but sit back and smile in the 'knowledge' that they are right and everyone else is a poor fool.
Although we have many people here who are involved in religion in some way, in the main they do not feel the need to manipulate others to their belief system, but there are religions where this is an imperative deigned by God - if you're not converting/saving you're not following the guidelines- and then we end up with JtP types and division.

I only try and convert people who ask, and even then I only give them information. And I don't think everyone else is a big fool.
P.S I should have told you i'm a Baha'i

Atari

Then you're not trying to convert people really, you're passing on information they've asked you for, which I think is different from the type of thing I'm talking about.