h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Alji,

Indeed, God did speak to lots of people through the Bible. He still speaks to them, directly, today. All (real) Christians have heard Him speak to them.

I am not sure where you got your ideas about the Bible from, but if it is from some book I suggest you burn it. The Bible is the Word of God, God inspried, and God looks after it, and no one is allowed to do with it other than what He allows.

I do not threaten anyone. I point out what is going to happen,as minister of God.

I do not hate anyone. I only hate sin, and false Christianity, not people.

God will make His own mind up, I am not God. I am telling you what He says. You think Him to be a liar. I know Him, and He says "God cannot lie."

Justin

<>

But how do you know he's not lying?

Because He said so. Weren't you listening to the dude Rocket Man?
How does Justin know that the bible is the inerrant word of God? Because It says so!
How does Justin Know that he can't possibly be mistaken? Because he can't possibly be mistaken!
Your problem Rocket Man is that you're operating with a satanically inspired notion that the Truth has to correspond with what's actually out there, instead of corresponding with how Justin interprets the bible. Shame on you!

Justin-

re. before your conversion. I have a specific faith, though (not quite a 'godless heathen'.) Were you a total unbeliever in anything, or did you follow a certain, non-Christian path? (I think the difference is important, that's all.)

'only some out of each nation, that is why there are so many unsaved.'
That may be a reason, but what purpose does that serve? What's the point of having so many unsaved?
(btw, what about 1905...?)

I am interested in your perspective on the Crusades. (think I've asked this before...) what happened to Christianity between the aftermath of Jesus and the establishment of what you consider the non-Christian ancient Church? (btw it was not the Catholic Church and did not become such until the Reformation, for the simple reason that it was *The Church*, and there was no alternative.) It seems terribly cruel that millions of ignorant laity (and ignorant parish priests) should suffer because they were denied access to truth (no way could they have sought it out themselves.) Or were they spared because they lived to the best of their ability, and God recognises the limits of all of us? (hope so.)

I don't consider what I believe to be a religion, btw. I have a mistrust of the word since too often it is concerned with over-prescriptivism than benefiting the lives of its adherents.
Would you not think, though, that since my beliefs are apparently false and against your God, they wouldn't work? I refer again to the point about prayer/magick etc.

Finally, if what you say about non-Christian belief is true- what actual harm are we doing, believing as we do?

Question > 'only some out of each nation, that is why there are so many unsaved.' Why?
Answer > Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

So, Heaven can only hold 144,000 people according to John's Revelation. The J.W.'s have already picked them, so the rest of us have no chance anyway!

Justin are you a Witness?

Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards U197895)

(Mandagora - The earliest schism to rend the church asunder was between Catholocism and Orthodoxy. I cannot remember when it happened; probably when the Roman Empire was split into two, because Catholocism is centred on Rome, and Orthodoxy was centred in Byzantium. Protestants are as you say an offshoot of the Catholic church.)

B

Justin-

I am looking at a piece of paper. The paper says, amongst other things, that it is the one true word of God. It is internally consistent (unlike the Bible). It describes events that actually took place (proveably so, unlike much of the Bible). It has not been selectively edited or mistranslated (unlike the Bible). It also has a very useful message for life and morality ("Don't be too quick to judge, for there are no simple answers and the way of certainty is the way of folly"). What's more, it has an identifiable author (me) who is known to have existed.

The evidence for the 'truth' for the Bible is no more compelling than the evidence for the 'truth' of this piece of paper.

Incidentally, why do you take the Bible as your reference when it is a product of the 'Catholic' Church? There are many more works of comparable provenance, but it was the Church that decreed what works were made canonical. If you believe that Catholics are not true Christians and are 'unsaved', why are you using their Holy Book, reflecting their beliefs and prejudices, as your own?

Is it because the mail-order business ("YOU can be an ORDAINED MINISTER for JUST $5!!!!") only sends regular Bibles to keep costs low?

Mandragora,

No path at all.

I don't think you should be questioning Almighty God in what He does with that which belongs to Him, do you?

What the Catholics did I will leave them to anser for,it is nothing to do with me, my people are the few who were the Lord's before the existence of the pagan Catholic religion.

True, there was only one visible state 'church' at one time. However God has His own tucked away, they are always a tiny minority. Jesus said, "All that my Father has given me WILL come to me."

At the time of revival 1905 for instance the Lord saves many, but not all. If you want to know why ask Him.

There is no such thing as salvation by 'doing your best'. You must be born again. New birth is the only way into the Kingdom of God.

None of us can save ourselves, by any means, we need a saviour, and all who reject that saviour reject their only hope, as they all find out a moment after death.

You are doing no harm in your own eyes, but in God's eyes you are rejecting His love for you, you are spitting on the blood of Christ, and you are denying that you need to be saved at all, and are calling God a liar by doing so. I leave you to decide how He is likely to see that.

Justin

To be frank, Justin, I consider you and those who share your beliefs a canker on the face of humanity. The religion you advocate is a denial of the true miracle of life; that of diversity.

Practically everyone in the developed world who is pious is also capable of not only tolerating other creeds, but accepting them as equal to their own. Religion is a matter of personal choice, and to dictate to others what they should believe and what faith they should follow is collosally arrogant, not to mention directly insulting.

The rabid extemporizing you display is indicative not of surety of faith but of uncertainty. You have to create a clamour of cliché and inflammatory bunk to drown out the tiny voice of doubt.

You seem to think that by telling us that God will not like our action that you are presenting us with some sort of fait accompli that will make us mend our ways and come into the fold. The condescending arttitude you adopt only makes you look like a cretin. I do not care for your God, and a world run by such as you would be the worst hell I could envisage.

You casually condemn millions because the 'right' kind of religion was not prevalent at the time. This is exactly the kind of elitist bilge that cults are formed around. You say that a man who worked hard for his family and people all his life, taught his children right form wrong and saw to it that they thrived, who until his last breath treated all around him with courtesy and faith is condemned to the same torment as a mass-murderer. How can you expect anyone to have any respect for your morality when you consider two such cases to be equivalent in the eyes of the lord?

You justify yourself and your beliefs with reference to your personal communiqués with God. You don't think that's a little presumptious?

And you haven't addressed any of the issues in my last post.

I suspected that you were previously pathless. It's a much greater difference to change from one faith to another, and to be honest that would make more of an impression on me (not meaning that I'd consider the new one better, just ask what was wrong with the previous one.)

(ta, Ben.) Justin, where was this secret, hidden Church? that seems totally contradictory to what you've been saying about spreading the word, and very selfish if as you say Christians wish to bring salvation to others.
More about that quote from Revelations- since it also says that the ridiculously small number never 'defiled themselves with women', who are they going to be? Catholic priests? Gay men? and since women appear to be the defilers, then it looks like the cause is lost for us anyway.
I much prefer C.S. Lewis' easily-explained-for-children version of Christianity (as set out in The Last Battle, a good book 'cept it made me sad for weeks when I found out they all died...) in that everyone who did unpleasant things in the name of Christ (Aslan) would be sent to a place befitting their actions, and those who did good in the name of Satan (Tash, I believe his name was) justly received salvation. If God is all he's cracked up to be- all-this, all-that etc. then it follows he'd be canny enough to have a system like that.
...but of course they would not have been 'reborn'- what is the actual process you undergo, which makes you different, superior and saved?

Queex,

It is not my place to condemn anyone. I only relate what Almighty God says. Your dispute is with Him,not me. If you have a problem with it take it up with Him, I am not God, merely a minister of His.

No one who has died thinks like you do, everyone who died without Christ is a believer, but now it is too late.

Justin

Mandragora,

You will find members of the real church in many assemblies. More in some than in others.

It is the function of some of the body of Christ to go out and preach on the streets, and I do. Others are a bit quieter in the way they work as God has not made them preachers. We are not selfish.

The cause for you is not lost. The door is still open for all who will seek and find Jesus Himself, themselves. He is your only hope to be free from sin and its consequences.

C.S. Lewis was not God, and he did not write Scripture.

The process is the same as it says in the Bible; God sought me out and brought me to Jesus Himself. He showed me to myself, as He saw me,in my sinful state. When you see what you are before Him you will never think you are 'good' in and of yourself again. And He gave me repentence unto life. He dealt with the old 'me' and installed a new 'me'. The same has to happen to you, or you will not enter Heaven, see Jn.3.

Let me just reiterate, I am NOT superior to you, or anyone. I am only saved, by His grace, not my own merit, and very grateful indeed.

Justin

So, you're an expert on what dead people think, too, are you? A man of many talents!
Do you REALLY, SERIOUSLY not grasp the difference between belief and knowledge? It doesn't matter one whit how strong your convictions are. Your convictions are not proof.

Justin, haven't you read Matthew 6 Verse 1;

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.



Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards U197895)

Justin-

"It is not my place to condemn anyone."

But you do. Constantly.

"Your dispute is with Him,not me."

My dispute is with you. You arrogantly and crassly dismiss anyone's beliefs if they do not match yours exactly. You say that you follow the Truth, but the only evidence you offer is your own authority. Do you really think that by mindlessly trotting out the same ridiculous dogma post after post you are somehow winning the debate? Your smug, self-righteous and blinkered arrogance is what I have a problem with. Where is your meekness? Where is your humbleness? Where is your sense of wonder at the creation of the Lord and your willingness to learn from the marvellous Creation around you?

You choose to ignore any interesting and thought-provoking lines of debate and instead pick up on the one or two sentences that offer the best opportunity for your tired sound-bites.

"No one who has died thinks like you do"

You see? Arrogance. Plain and simple.

I think this needs to be said: You are not a Christian. The narrow, "Christian" creed you follow is nothing more than a shallow mockery of the true tenets of Christianity. Christianity is about tolerance, forgiveness and humbleness. Your beliefs include none of these. You seem to take some kind of sadistic delight in telling us we're all damned, and you pretend that the only reason we don't listen to your 'convincing' arguments is because we are fundamentally unsaveable. If you can't see the flaw in that argument you really are beyond help.

And please answer my question. As someone who hates Catholics, why are you using their Bible as your holy book?

Queex,

I leave you to your way.

Justin

Please answer my question. It's not a lot to ask.

Queex,

To what avail? You are wilfully determined that you are not going to submit to God, and in order to salve you concience, and make yourself feel more comfortable in your sin you come against Christians in the hope of destroying the gospel, and 'disproving God'.

I do not have the time to waste on people like you. Do remember though, when you, like all the Earth, stand before the Lord Jesus; you were told, and you would not obey.

Justin

Please. Less dogma. More answers.

If Catholicism is wrong-headed, why are you using a Catholic Bible as your chosen Holy Book?

Let's ignore all the other issues for now. Please just give a straight answer to this question.

Well Satan,

As you very well know, it is not a 'Catholic Bible' as the canon of Scripture was written and finished 250 years before the existence of your 'church'. The fact that those who were in the catholic religion may or may not have shunted God's word around is neither here nor there. There was a number of canons of Scripture in existence some time before the demonic religion of Catholicism, (though the poor souls in it do not know it is of course), was even thought of.