h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

He can't go to Heaven in any case since he's been 'defiled' by women. And I certainly can't in case I mess the place up.
Do you have an alternative interpretation of that verse, or can it be disregarded?

He can't go to Heaven in any case since he's been 'defiled' by women. And I certainly can't in case I mess the place up.
Do you have an alternative interpretation of that verse, or can it be disregarded?

Cool. You called me Satan. That's the closest thing to praise you've given me.

The Catholic Church was named to distinguish it from the Protestant movement. Was existed before either can be considered 'Catholic' because they were very nearly identical in practices and articles of faith before and after the 'split'. Protestantism was a movement to change how worship was conducted and to try and stamp out several practices that many thought were wrong.

The canonical Bible was created by the Church. Protestantism schismed from the Church. The Church became known as the Catholic Church to distinguish it from the new movement. Although the core beliefs of Catholicism have evolved slowly over time, with successive pronouncements from Popes, the important parts are enshrined in the canonical Bible.

You say that Catholics have lost the way, but yet you still use a Bible that was compiled using thier beliefs as the starting point. If they are wrong, how can their Bible be correct?

Have you scanned the non-canonical works seeking a higher truth? Or is that kind of systematic application of critical faculties an anathema to your way of thinking?

hurrah for Erasmus and the like, then.

Justin- what happens to those who die very young- infants, toddlers, stillbirths, children? Presumably they would have to be baptised, although that would not be their own choice but their parents, I expect you do not follow that practice. Would they therefore have to be born again at a very young age to avoid punishment after death, but what happens if they die too young to make such a decision?

I took a quick look at Justin's page to see why he's been so quiet. Apparently he's unsubscribed from all of his conversations (including this one) apart from one.

Coward.

Ste

There are lots of reasons why people unsubscribe from threads. Gloating ain't nice. I am sure, as our very own Jesus Christ said, his faith will make him strong.

B

PS

(Talking of 'our very own Jesus Christ: someone lent me 'Consider Phlebas' recently: what would it be like to live on a planet where god had *not* incarnated as man and walked among us? I mean it is a kinda-friendly thing to do. God presumably knows first hand what it it like to have a hangover, and have diaghorea, (and even how to spell it, being omniscient and all), and stuff like that).

B

I wasn't gloating at all Ben , I was informing people who are trying to talk to or ask Justin questions that he isn't here anymore (the 'coward' comment was just a little joke).

'Consider Phlebas', as in the Iain M Banks book?

Ste

Yep.

I have read a lot of his non-SF book, but this is his first SF book that I have read. I think I prefer the non-SF stuff, just as edgy but more aposite. On the other hand this was written in 87, so he has matured a lot in the last 15 years. I guess I'll read another or two.

But what about my question. What about god made man and walking among us?

B

I've read all of his SF stuff and a few of his non-SF . I'd heartily recommend "Use of Weapons" (the next book chronologically, there is no continuing stories between the books, but as they progress the Culture's universe is explained in more and more detail) and "Excession".

I don't think I can answer that question to be honest . It's got me stumped because a) I don't think Jesus was God, and b) however, culturally speaking it is considered true in the West because so many people think it is, so historically it was true and that permeates into todays culture, which includes me. So, personally I can't imagine there ever was, and culturally I can't imagine there ever wasn't. You get me?

Ste

*tries to remember the plot of 'Consider Phlebas'*

You're talking about the 'transcended' or whatever they're called? Seperate thing, really - after all, those races were mortal, and became gods - so they'll have had plenty of experience with hangovers (I imagine the day before transcendence was a pretty wild party... )

I've done the opposite: gone from the SF to non-SF stuff. Actually, I don't see that there's such a wild difference. I guess the SF stuff is more thematic, if I can use the word, and are in a consistent universe, but it didn't feel dramatically different - not as I expected, certainly.
*shrug*
-Martin

'Feersome Enjinn' is some of Iain Banks' best work. I really didn't like 'The Wasp Factory' as a book, clever yes, a good read no.

Well, I loved the Crow Road, and I liked Espedair Street and Complicity. The SF doesn't seem as outstanding, but I have a lot more of it to read yet.

Ste, I understand exactly what you mean. You have summed it up really neatly.

Lucinda, I mentioned Consider Phlebas because it Idirans are described as religious; what struck me reading it is that every religion from the outside seems emptily ritualistic and tritely platitudinous. And what struck me last night was just what an extraordinary concept the trinity actually is. The word of god made manifest and walking among us. Unique amongst religions so far as I am aware, and as Ste rightly says, something which evokes responses on more than one level.

B

> "Unique amongst religions"

Except for the Greeks, the Romans, the Norse, whatever the name of that Buddhism variant that sees Buddha as god is, and presumably many more. It's not particularly original, is it?

No Ben, it's not unique, the trinity represents Creator, Creation and Recreation/Destruction.
The Hindu Trimurti - The triad, or trinity, of Hindu gods, consisting of Brahma, the Creator, Vishnu, the Preserver, and Siva, the Destroyer (Destroyer is not the right word for Siva, He is the Lord of the Dance of Life ).
Krishna was the Hindu Christ i.e. God incarnate;

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 6.30).

"The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'It is here,' or 'It is there.' The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21).

The three Gods, the Trimurti like all the Hindu Gods were created, there is only one uncreated god Brahman.

Alji (Member of The Guild of Wizards)

Lucinda...

The Culture word is "Sublimed", but I don't *think* any Sublimed are mentioned in Consider Phlebas, so I don't think that's what agcB is on about.

H.

Isn't the planet the Mind takes refuge on a 'Dead Planet' by decree of one of the Sublimed?

Well, the varieties of Buddhism I know best are atheistic or just silent on the subject. The Buddha was and is viewed as an enlightened man.

The Greeks, Romans and Norse were all pantheons; the difference with Christianity is that it claims that its god is (1) the only god and (2) the creator. So far as I am aware only Christ is the incarnation of a monotheisitic creator. Having said that I think the Druids had something similar, and likewise Mithraism.

Hey - I was out of my tree and in an entirely different part of the forest when I typed the first post. It all seems a lot less worth commenting on now than it did last night.

Move along now, ladies and gentlemen, there is nothing to see here.

B

Fadge. I really wanted to know what happens to the little 'uns.

make the little children suffer, and all?

*Makes it a priority to use the word "fadge" more often*

Hello a girl called Ben contemplating etc. etc.,

Sorry to interrupt, but mention of Banks' S.F. caught my eye. I'm not a great lover of S.F. and liked his straight stuff more, but read C.P. anyway. Like you I thought "yeah, its o.k., but nothing like as edgy and profound as the mainstream stuff". However, reading on through the rest of it, I'm totally blown away by the power and philosophical insight he achieves - and the humanity of his vision (which actually goes hand in hand with the cool compassion he achieves in his straight fiction). Its speculative fiction, not sci fi, and as the speculation expands assumptions crumble, even assumptions one might have derived from the text of earlier novels. The issues raised in both "Culture" novels and one-offs are absolutely critical right here and now, and this fiction destroys moral certainty, forcing the reader to think. I don't want to sound as if I am to Iain M. Banks what Justin is to Christ, but I really would recommend these books to anyone. "Use of Weapons" is indeed a classic, I would also big-up "Against a Dark Background".

Re, the incarnation. Yes, it does make a huge difference. I doubt if He ever had a hangover, although runny poo seems a strong probability during the sojourn in the wilderness.

I agree, the Trinity is an extraordinary concept, but perhaps it tells us more about the condition of being human than about our alleged supernatural father. We are all "god" incarnate, in a sense, "god's butterfly caught in a cocoon of flesh". We must all reconcile our mind, or soul, with the complex and mortal machine it inhabits.

Cheers,

Stella X.