h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I believe that every child should bear a consequence for their actions. From the earliest stages, unacceptable behavior must be shown to be unacceptable and a consequential punishment invoked. From a simple verbal rebuke to a severe dressing-down to banishment to the bedroom. In my day I got hidings, and I still believe in this extreme punishment when extremes are necessary. If we fail to punish our children EVERY time they infringe, they will develop the (ir)rationale that it's to do unacceptable things if you don't get caught. This is the start of the rot in society.

My children were given a lot of love, a lot of guidance and punished each time I knew of unacceptable behavior. If they owned up (Americans talk about 'fessed-up) and told us, the punishment was much reduced, even minimal, but they were still punished. However, if they concealed it (and they did at times) they received the full extent of the punishment, as agreed between my wife and I.

But what to me is more important, after serving their punishment, we would go through a ritual of reconciliation. Our children would come to us and say "Sorry, Mum and Dad". We would reinforce the lesson by talking about exactly what they were punished for, why it was unacceptable and how it made us feel. Then we would hug them and forgive them. Forgiveness means you NEVER again hold THAT event against them. You do not accuse them of it again and find them guilty, over and over again - that is nothing less than persecution!

I love my kids - most of the people who meet them now do too!

Some children have genetic behavioural problems which would be made worse by strict discipline. Early diagnosis and professional care in these cases is more beneficial.
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/bpd/res/childhood.shtml

I agree completely wrinkled-rocker. Knowing right from wrong doesn't just come from nowhere! (I wish it did, instilling discipline is *tough* but necessary.)

I agree, Marvin. But for the other 97% (or so?) nothing makes a good adult like knowing that everything you do has a consequence - and being prepared to accept the consequence. When a parent shields the child so as to molly-coddle them, they do them the greatest disservice possible. Guide them, alert them to trouble, comfort them when they fall, defend them in danger - but don't turn them into the I-can-do-what-I-like-because-my-Dad-will-fix-it-and-make-it-go-away types we see today. "It's not my fault - my father/mother/teacher/boyfriend/girlfirend/society made me this way!" Uncorrected disobedient children become delinguent teenagers and end up in prison. Rules (and fences) build respect for one's self, for other people (and their property) and make peaceful society possible.

Said my bit - I'll shuddup now!

Rocker, you're dead right. Especially about the point of always punishing, the subject of forgiveness.

But where you were truly right was the point making sure they knew EXACTLY why they were being punished. As a counterpoint, what if they didn't know what they'd done was wrong per se? Would you give them a lesser punishment to make them aware of their mistake and then make the punishment more severe for stuff they knew to be wrong?

By and large, I agree with you, WR.

And children love to know where they stand. They love routines and boundaries, although they will test them.

Parents need to set a positive example. It's no use telling them one thing, and then doing something different yourself.

I'm also all in favour of positive language, ie, 'Cross the road here', rather than, 'Don't cross there!'. Better still, ask them where they should cross the road and why they've chosen that spot.

If children learn discipline in childhood, they will be able to get along much better in life. I've known people whose parents have done everything for them, so they've never learned good habits, and then later in life, they can't run a household, can't keep promises and expect the world to conform to their needs. These kind of people are not fun to be around.

97% is overstating things. 1 in 4 people suffer from mental illness.
Inform yourselves here:-
http://www.mindout.net

(1in 4 people suffer from mental illness)
i would tend to disagree 75% of the population percieve that 25% of neighbours are completly and utterly barking mad or suffering from a mental disorder.
Meanwhile 1 in four of the population believes 75% of the population are out to get them.

That's not funny.

But surely there are many differing causes for mental illness?
I suspect that caring discipline is not a major cause. Instead, UNcaring or abusive behaviour or negelect are much more likely to cause mental problems?

(Of course, I wish that I didn't know anything about this - unfortunately I do - not first-hand, but it HAS affected my family and I *do* know the causes.)

While I almost agree with what you say I think it is important initially not to allow the extremes to become the norm so that just because some and it is quite a small number of kids do have behavioural anomalies or mental health issues these do not provide a reasonable excuse for abnormal behaviour neither should it be seen as acceptable simply because it has a label.

it was not meant to be funny
Action = consequence = self discipline = good citizen
"Action" isnt funny either when you have been picked up by your ankle turned upside down and had you posteriour belted as a "consequence" of a observation conterary to "teacher/parent/enforcer/of dicipline"
what i was inplieing "antisocial behaviour" is often caused by your classification "mental illness" a child may have "tourettes sydrome" one of many "personality disorders" yet from views shown in this thread indicate the this problem, although is unoticed by the more tollerent in our society it is also wrongly percieved by many as "antisocial behaviour" and judgement passed on what to a to a person with "a personality disorder"
like you have infered my message was aimed at you,Yet all i had intended to infer was "statitics" are misleading as to true results,or to put it another way "not black and white" for positive results you will also have negative along with neutral

Some parents may dole out punishment disproportionatley, causing resentment, depression, stress...
Some kids might start bottling up their emotions and start taking their frustrations out on themselves, rather than sticking up for themselves.

obviously none of you are children anymore
but rocker is on the right track
while my parents provide alot of influence ,i get most from away from them. it is dog eat dog out there and i'm learning as fast as i can.

I think what has been forgotten is that not *all* mental illnesses are the result of trauma in childhood. That's an absurdly overly Freudian thing to say - all sorts of factors lead into mental illnesses, biology, life experience *after* childhood, etc. Childhood trauma - the kind you are speaking of - does sometimes enter into it, but it is by and large not the main reason.

And the 1 in 4 thing refers to *all* people, during a single year - that counts everything from clinical depression to schizophrenia.

Further, not everyone who is technically abused (whether physically, emotionally, or sexually) as a child will develop mental illness; my uni roommate was abused when she was young and she's relatively normal.

Having a 'behavioural' problem or a mental illness certainly does NOT preclude a person from being expected to learn the difference between acceptable & unacceptable behaviour.

Maz

ah but whilst its acceptable for a person with tourettes syndrome to voice obsenaties,this being inherent with the disease,it is not acceptable to condem some one for such behaviour through igronence of syptoms,as infered by the tone of some of the posts,i:e the sort of person who would condem someone for spitting onthe side walk,without considering that maybe he has worked in a mine all his life and has fluid build up on lungs as a result of that ,so before you condem someone for (Having a 'behavioural' problem)think ! that "problem" may well be "cross that person has to live with for the rest of his life"