h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Della

let me give you analogy about maybe why I wasn't jumped on. If you try to sell a piece of pie, advertised as "foot high pie", when it's actually only 10 inches high, you could get in trouble for false advertising.

If you instead called it "mile high pie", you would be completely safe. The claim of the pie being a mile high is obviously ridiculous; the claim of being foot high isn't.

I think you've read some of empty's posts before...you might have recognized the fact that my misquotes were quite ridiculous. I don't think any of our distinguished debaters here felt the need to point that out...

dave

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html

Is it a conspiracy or a coincidence? There is a long and tangled history between the Bush family and the elite of Saudi Arabia.







There are many business and connections between the Bush family and the elite of Saudi Arabia.



It begins in the 1970's in Houston, Texas, when George W. Bush was just starting out in his family's two businesses of politics and oil. The powerful - and very rich - Bin Laden family helped fund his first venture into oil.

The cozy friendship continued for decades. After a terrorist attack at a barracks in Saudi Arabia which killed 19 Americans, the bin Laden family received a multi-billion dollar contract to re-build. And incredibly, George Bush Sr. was in a business meeting at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Washington on the morning of September 11th with one of Osama Bin Laden's brothers.

Below is a timeline that details the relationship between the Bin Laden and Bush families that culminates in the tragic events of September 11th.

1968
George W. Bush joins the Texas Air National Guard, a coveted position that ensures he doesn’t have to serve in Vietnam. While a member of the Guard, Bush meets and befriends Jim Bath, a former Air Force pilot and budding entrepreneur.

1976
George H. W. Bush becomes director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). During his tenure, Bush helps provide training for the Saudi royal family’s palace guard, cementing a relationship that proves critical to the Bush family’s fortunes. Bush also privatizes various CIA assets, with Bath considered one of the beneficiaries because of his involvement in the aircraft business. Bath will later tell a business associate he works for the CIA and was recruited by Bush Sr.







Jim Bath is alleged to be the link between the Bin Laden and Bush families.


Salem Bin Laden, older brother to future al Qaeda leader Osama, enters into a trust agreement with Jim Bath, whereby Bath will act as the bin Laden family’s representative in North America, investing money in various business ventures. Bath also becomes the business representative of Khalid bin Mahfouz, a member of Saudi Arabia’s most powerful banking family and owners of the National Commercial Bank, the principal bank of the Saudi royal family.

1978
Charles W. “Bill” White, a former Annapolis graduate and US Navy pilot, graduates from Harvard’s business school. He is then introduced to Jim Bath who is looking for someone to manage his real estate company. Bath hires White as his partner. Money from the bin Laden and bin Mahfouz families is invested in Bath’s real estate company. Among other things, Bath buys the Saudis an airport, office and apartment buildings, and invests in Texas banks. Eventually, Salem Bin Laden and Khalid bin Mahfouz buy an enormous mansion in River Oaks, Houston’s most affluent neighborhood. Read an interview with Bill White







Bush Jr. was a young man when he received funding for his first oil venture from Jim Bath.

George W. Bush starts up an oil company in Texas called Arbusto 78. Bath will invest money from Salem bin Laden and Khalid bin Mahfouz in this new company. Bill White is told by Bath that more than $1-million of the Saudis’ money was pumped into Bush’s venture.

1979
The Carter administration, through the CIA, begins to fund the fledgling mujahadeen in Afghanistan – six months before the Soviet invasion – in the hopes of drawing the USSR into its own Vietnam.

1980
George H.W. Bush runs for the presidential nomination of the Republican Party, but loses to Ronald Reagan. He becomes Reagan’s running mate and eventual vice-president.

1981
Osama bin Laden, son of the founder of the Bin Laden Group, the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia, travels to Afghanistan to help the mujahadeen in their bloody war against the Soviet Union.

1986
Bill White and Jim Bath have a falling out. Bath then launches 28 frivolous lawsuits against White, leading to White’s financial ruin and expulsion from Houston’s business community. White fights the lawsuits, refusing to take a huge pay off to keep silent about his knowledge of Bath’s relationship to the Saudis and Bush family. Read an interview with Bill White

1987
Harken Energy, a company that George W. Bush’s failed oil companies have been folded into, receives $25-million stock offering underwritten by significant players connected to the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), a Middle Eastern banking concern. Bush is key to Harken obtaining the money.

1989
The Soviets pull out of Afghanistan after the CIA spends (US) $3-billion on the largest covert operation in its history. Osama bin Laden returns to Saudi Arabia, angry with how the Americans abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviet retreat.







Bin Mahfouz, Osama's brother-in-law, lived in Houston and had ties to both the bin Ladens and Jim Bath.


1988-92
The BCCI scandal breaks. The bank is exposed for being a massive criminal enterprise, catering to some of the most notorious villains of the 20th century, including Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, terrorist leaders Abu Nidal, and the Medellin drug cartel and for being involved in money laundering, the Iran contra scandal, and pilfering investors’ cash. At the time of its collapse, Khalid Bin Mahfouz (see above) was COO of BCCI, and is eventually fined $225-million to settle felony charges for stealing investors’ money.

1991
The first Gulf War occurs, whereby George H. W. Bush is determined to push Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait to ensure the Iraqi dictator doesn’t have a stranglehold on world oil markets. Osama bin Laden urges the Saudi royal family to find an Arab solution, by raising an army on their own to fight Hussein. When the royal family invites the U.S. in to do the job instead, Bin Laden becomes disenchanted with the House of al-Saud. His anger grows when after the war the US leaves 20,000 troops behind in Saudi Arabia. Soon Bin Laden makes a deal with the Saudi royal family: he is allowed to leave the kingdom with his fortune, and will receive funding for al Qaeda from various Saudi charities and banks, but in return he must not launch attacks against the royal family. Bin Laden settles in the Sudan, aiming his ire at the US.

1992
George H. W. Bush loses to Bill Clinton. Eventually the former president becomes an adviser to the Carlyle Group, a powerful Washington-based private investment firm with interests in the defense industry. Among his duties, Bush helps strengthen Carlyle’s ties to the Saudi royal family. He will later visit Saudi Arabia and the bin Laden family compound. The bin Ladens eventually invest in the Carlyle Group. Carlyle buys a company called Vinnell Corp., which provides training to the Saudi palace guard. George W. Bush briefly sits on the board of directors of one of Carlyle’s subsidiaries.

1993
The first attack on the World Trade Centre, which is connected to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, occurs.

1994
George W. Bush becomes governor of Texas.

1995
Five American soldiers are killed in a car bomb in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis quickly execute the suspects they arrest, ignoring wishes from the FBI to interrogate them beforehand.

The Taliban come to power in Afghanistan with the backing of Pakistan’s notorious intelligence agency, the ISI.

1996
Osama bin Laden is forced to move from the Sudan to Afghanistan under pressure from the Clinton administration. Neither the US nor the Saudis make an effort to arrest him – despite the opportunity offered up to them by the Sudanese government.

June
A truck bomb blows up the al-Khobar barracks, housing US air force personnel in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 soldiers. A group called Saudi Hezbollah claims responsibility. Eventually, the Clinton administration drops the investigation because it does not want to upset relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran – the country that funds Hezbollah.









The Saudis - including Bin Mahfouz meet with an al Qaeda representative at a Paris hotel in 1996.




Summer
A meeting of prominent Saudis occurs in a Paris hotel. Among the attendees is the head of Saudi intelligence, Turki bin Faisal, and Khalid bin Mahfouz. They meet with a representative of al Qaeda and agree to extend the earlier arrangement made between the Saudi royal family and Osama bin Laden – whereby in return for cash, al Qaeda agrees not to attack inside Saudi Arabia.

The CIA produces an internal report that documents the numerous Saudi charities that are funding terrorists. Osama bin Laden’s name is mentioned.

1998
Al Qaeda makes it most audacious attack to date by blowing up US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing 224 people.

2000
January
Ziad Jarrah, pilot of Flight 93, which would crash into a field in Pennsylvania on 9/11, is stopped and interrogated at an airport in United Arab Emirates (UAE). He is returning from al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan and is carrying Islamic religious material on him. The US is informed of the interrogation but not the details.

January
A high-powered meeting of al Qaeda occurs in an apartment complex in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. Attending the meeting is Khalid Shaykh Mohammed, the number three man in al Qaeda and mastermind behind the 1998 US embassy attacks, and architect of the USS Cole and 9/11 attacks to come. Also at the meeting is Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, two Saudi citizens who would end up as hijackers on Flight 77, the plane that crashes into the Pentagon on 9/11.

The CIA learns about the meeting beforehand and asks the Malaysian secret police to place it under surveillance. Video footage and photographs of the dozen men in attendance are taken, though no tape recording is possible. After the meeting breaks up, Al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar fly to the US on their own passports, landing in Los Angeles. There they are met by Omar al-Bayoumi, a Saudi national who works for the Saudi civil aviation authority. Just prior to picking up the two would-be hijackers, Al-Bayoumi meets with a member of the Saudi consulate in LA – a man connected to terrorist activity.

Al-Bayoumi takes al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi to San Diego, puts them up in an apartment, signs a lease, holds a party for them, enrolls them in flight school and gives them money. Later, the FBI concludes that al-Bayoumi is likely a Saudi intelligence agent. Al-Bayoumi also passes on thousands of dollars to the hijackers that originate from Princess Haifa, wife of Prince Bandar Saudi ambassador to the US.

May-June
Members of the Hamburg cell, including ringleader Mohammed Atta, enter the US. They are traveling on Saudi visas, all of which contain errors on them.

September
Al-Hazmi and Al-Mihdhar move into the home of a local imam in San Diego, Abdussattar Shaikh. The imam is an FBI informant. In fact, Shaikh holds meetings with his FBI handler while al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar sit in a room next door. Shaikh contends he was never told what mission the hijackers were on. His FBI handler, meanwhile, was never informed by his superiors to look out for al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar.

October
The USS Cole, sitting in a harbour off the coast of Yemen, is attacked by a boat laden with explosives, killing 17 sailors.

November
George W. Bush is elected president of the US in a contested election. Support for his campaign from the oil industry is generous.

2001
In the months leading up to 9/11, the CIA, FBI and National Security Agency receive a burgeoning mountain of intelligence that a terrorist attack of some magnitude, and launched by Al Qaeda, is imminent. They assume the attack will happen overseas.

January
The CIA and FBI begin to piece together the importance of the individuals who met a year earlier in Malaysia. Despite the information they have, neither al-Hazmi nor al-Mihdhar are placed on the State Department and Customs watch list.

April
Al-Hazmi is stopped for speeding in Oklahoma. He is let go because his name does not appear in the police officer’s data bank as a wanted man.

May
The CIA will later determine that Khalid Shaykh Mohammed, architect of 9/11 and al Qaeda’s other attacks, was entering the US as late as this month, despite the fact he is a well-known figure in the terrorist netherworld, his name first becoming known to the CIA as early as 1995.

June
CIA and FBI meet to talk about al-Mihdhar. But the CIA does not hand over critical information to the FBI. Again, the men are not placed on any watch list and a search for them is not initiated.

July
A Phoenix, Az.-based FBI counter-terrorism agent writes a lengthy memo in which he says it has been noticed that a high number of Arabs, possibly with connections to al Qaeda, are taking flying lessons in local flight schools. His memo is ignored by FBI headquarters.

August
President Bush receives a detailed and lengthy presidential daily briefing from the CIA in which Osama Bin Laden and al Qaeda’s aim of launching an attack against the US is discussed. To this day, the Bush White House refuses to release the contents of this briefing to Congressional inquiries into 9/11.

The CIA finally puts al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar’s name on the watch lists. By then it is too late. The FBI and CIA do a limited search for the men.

Sept. 11/2001
The attack occurs. The morning of the attack George Bush Sr. is meets with members of the Carlyle Group in Washington. Bin Laden's own brother is at the meeting. Members of the Bin Laden family are allowed to leave the U.S. without questioning two days later.

Oh, and trunt & Dave,

A Canadian takes over because it's NORAD. It's a North American air defense system, not just a US one. http://www.norad.mil

Just thought I'd let you know.

Ste

I hope that NORAD is as I trust us not your response to my post. In any case, let the bowls crash and burn.

This post has been removed.

I have posted over and over again that I was opposed to the war in the begining. I did not see the WMD or Al Queada ties. I felt that the action would undermine what little authority the UN had to begin with. However, now that it is said and done there is no point in arguing the whole thing. If it was illegal no one on earth is going to do anything about it. Chalk it up to doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

When I said that your article made a convincing case for both sides of the issue I meant the two halves. The case really isn't black and white as is evidenced by the opposing viewpoints.

Trunt, I highly doubt that the US would attack canada. I've been in a couple of barfights with Royal Canadian Military College cadets in Kingston, there would be no challenge in it.

The fact that I am even able to post anything halfway lucid at this point is amazing me. Is there really anyone out there that will continue to defend the wraith, the computer pirate. He has turned and violated my email account. All of his childish antics prior have been obnoxious but harmless. Now I am pretty damn pissed.

However here are a few points that I typed up prior to checking my email that I will go ahead and give you all anyway.

We all know that bad news sells better than good news. Here are a few of the 48 points made by a USMC Lt. Col. that were not profitable enough to make the news.

b) More than 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens
c) Nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are functioning
e) On Oct 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts exceeding the pre-war average
f) All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are now open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
h) Teachers earn 12 to 25 times their former salaries
i) All 240 hospitals and more than 1,200 clinics are now open
j) Doctors’ salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam Hussein
m) A coalition program has cleared more than 14,000 km of Iraq’s 27,000 km of weed-chocked canals that now irrigates tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.
u) Iraq has a single unified currency for the first time in 15 years
v) Satellite TV dishes are legal
y) There are more than 170 newspapers.
ag) Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren’t
ak) children aren’t imprisoned and murdered when their parents disagree with the government
an) Saudis will hold municipal elections
ao) Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents
ap) Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms

Yup, work here aint done. But despite the attacks, despite everything Iraq is a better place than it was a year ago or 10 or 20. Also despite all the naysayers there is a bit of democracy leaking out around the edges.

sgt, stand down, and that's an order!

Frankly, boys and girls, the amount of trash talking here is starting to resemble a particularly nasty football game (of either variety, mind you). Can we keep the personal insults to a dull roar, and just call it good?

And why is it that wraith and ES are so adamant that sgt flipper is a fake, anyway? I can assure that he isn't. It would cost certain people their jobs if I told you how I found out, but honestly, he's really in Iraq. I promise. And what purpose would my lying serve, anyway?

The problem with conspiracy theories is that you can string any set of facts together and make one. The Kennedy assassination theories (Johnson, the Mob, the FBI, the military, Cuba...the list goes on) and the Iran-Contra theories are but a few.

I don't doubt that the Bush family has close ties to the Saudis. They're in the same business, after all. And no one ever doubted that oil and the military-industrial complex are the best served by this war. But I also don't doubt that the same people who took the US to Viet Nam in the 60's still believe in the theory of regional dominoes, and they are in control of US foreign policy now.

Damn, but I can hardly wait until November.

"And why is it that wraith and ES are so adamant that sgt flipper is a fake,"

Montana, I've never said that SargentFlipper is a fake. He is a pathetic manipulated puppet, with the intelligence of a cucumber, who thinks he's playing a game when he blows people away. (Perfect for Uncle Sam's army, really).

But I've always believed he is who he says he is.

Hi Monty,

I think Wraith may be influenced by the well established fact that his mommy Della faked a persona on this site even on this thread I think whilst also operating her "real" log-in.

When you say intelligence of a cumcumber Empty do you mean sea cucumber or the green fruit? Which ever it is you are putting Flipper down for I think you'll equally as well qualify for comparison with the other one.

"I think Wraith may be influenced by the well established fact that his mommy Della faked a persona on this site..."

Everyone here has faked a persona. Unless, of course, you would like us to believe that Blickbadger is your real name.

"When you say intelligence of a cumcumber Empty do you mean sea cucumber or the green fruit?"

It was the latter I had in mind. Nobody who voluntarily joins the US military could possibly be capable of independant thought. So comparison to a green fruit is quite appropriate.

I gather from your comments that you are a concientious objector, yes?

And when I say that the name calling has become something of a farce, it's comments like this: "a pathetic manipulated puppet, with the intelligence of a cucumber" Why do you say that? (I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, I just find it an odd way to make an argument) Is it because he disagrees with you and believes that he is doing something worthwhile? Is it because he refuses to accept what you say without question? Is it, in fact, because you've actually tested his IQ with a cucumber's?

I'm not trying to attack you. I don't think that anyone has a corner on the pontificating, or on the name-calling. I just think that calling people names and insulting them is perhaps not the best way to get your point across, that's all. And that goes for everyone, not just you, or wraith, or dave, or sgt flipper, or whomever. Even I get a little heated, but the bombast is getting a bit much.

I happen to think the war in Iraqi, and the WOT itself, are illegal. I think the US is the worst violator of the UN with the possible exception of Israel. I think the WMD never existed, and Shrub has a hidden agenda that includes imperialism and tyrany. I think that no one here has all the answers, although I think the majority of us are smarter than most, to actually know things like, oh, where to find the news. I also think that with the exception of Sgt Flipper (and Seth of Rabi, if he ever comes back) are in a position to offer valuable insights into the reality of what's happening in Iraq, but because they're US military and in Iraq, their thoughts are getting rejected out of hand.

I could be wrong, of course. The older I get the more I realize that I don't know everything.

*climbs down off the soapbox*

I don't think you're wrong, Montana. I think you're absolutely right.

I've offered my opinion of SgtFlipper, there's no reason ever to re-state it. From now on I'll confine myself to answering the points he makes.

x10

BTW, yes I'm a concientious objector. If I believed in a cause enough (my country would never qualify as a good enough cause) I would be prepared to die for it.

But I'd never kill - ever.

"x10"

I agree.

Flipper said "Trunt, I highly doubt that the US would attack canada. I've been in a couple of barfights with Royal Canadian Military College cadets in Kingston, there would be no challenge in it."

Yes, the "elite" 10th mountain division versus our military college cadets - that sounds like a fair fight. Love to see you try the same gag up around Petawawa where we keep our real soldiers, sarge - you'll be glad Canada has socialized medicine afterwards if they can find enough of you.

But seriously - ES if I were a Yikesing person, I'd have yikes'd that cucumber crack. You just might make me call for the referee yet. That was so far out of line I don't even know where to begin.
Sarge, if wraith has hacked your email, report him/her/it to the appropriate authorities. Frankly I hope they send him to work in the spam mines for life. That kind of sh!t is inexcusable.

"ES if I were a Yikesing person, I'd have yikes'd that cucumber crack. You just might make me call for the referee yet. That was so far out of line I don't even know where to begin."


Rev, in my defence, let me remind you of something Dave Capt Obvious said in post 4361:

"let me give you analogy about maybe why I wasn't jumped on. If you try to sell a piece of pie, advertised as "foot high pie", when it's actually only 10 inches high, you could get in trouble for false advertising.

If you instead called it "mile high pie", you would be completely safe. The claim of the pie being a mile high is obviously ridiculous; the claim of being foot high isn't."

So your defence amounts to this. "He did it too/first miss"

Are you eight years old. Personally speaking thats the cut off age at which I accept that as an excuse. Nothing scientific or legal about it but by that age I'd expect any young person to know better than to sink to someone else level but even if they did which as Monty says we can all be guilty of that. I would definately expect them to be mature enough to now that any such BS isnt going to work anymore.

Oh yes I really am Blickybadger, most people who know me know me by that name. If you ever get the chance to ask round my way people will point you in my direction if you ask who I am. OK thats not the way my name is on my passport but its pretty close.

Though the name does owe a little to poetic license. The persona here is as at is in real life.

I think Shakespeare says it best in Hamlet.
"Seems Madam? Nay it is. I know not seems."

"So your defence amounts to this. "He did it too/first miss""

Not at all, you misunderstand. Not uncommon for you. So I'll try to put it in simple terms.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the fact that Dave Obvious can say utterly infantile things and get away with them. But I speak the truth (albeit a little exaggerated) and I'm gastigated for it.

Then you come along, right on cue, and prove me right.

Blick, if your H2G2 nickname is close to your real name, then you're the exception here. Della and her other persona (Adele) were always entirely consistant in their views. It was obvious from the start that they were the same person. She never tried to decieve anyone.