h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*And both of them need to get over their religious differences.*

Now there is a statement that could echo through the ages and around the world.

The irony of beliefs that create beautiful music, art, and archetecture along with war, famine, suffering, and torture.

When I see The US being blamed for the mess in the middle east it is amazing how few people really know or even look at history and the real causes behind all this. The colonal powers of the times in most part the british entered into agreement and play power broker throughout the early 1900s. Nation building? How about nNation creating! Just look at Eygpts High comm. Sir Mcmahons conversations with Sherif of Mecca and how he had him turn the Arabs loose on the otterman empire because of their cozy relation with germany. The 1916 syke picot accord {russia,france,britian} that stabbed sherif in the back not to mention the 1917 Balfour Decleration that stated British sympathys with the Zionist cause and their disire to set up a state in palestine.

O what a tangled web we weave........

The only thing the US is guilty of in the whole mess is being handed a bag of shit by the old guard.

Ok I went a little far in implying the US is completly innocent of problems in the middle east. However I wish more people would read up on and look into history of the middle east. It is so eye opening and very interesting. You can see the direction and the cause and effects of the policys and actions that created the modern day middle east.

And we all know that history is written by the winners! I feel nauseated listening to the news, all the mealy-mouthed rot from Mr Bremner - interesting to see how long 'Viceroy' Garner lasted, wasn't it?

Wasn't bin Laden an enemy of Saddam? Yes, very much so indeed! Saddam's state was secular, and bin Laden's main problem with the Americans was their base in Saudi Arabia! So, yes, it all looks very suss to me!

You say they're still looking for WMD, Blatherskite, but it was in the newspapers here, that the USA has given up the pretence... and many of us never believed in the WMD in the first place!
Do you believe in a tooth fairy?

>>You do not really believe the iraq war was about WMD, Freedom or even oil do you zoomer? <<
So, what do *you* believe it was about birth? It was supposed to be about WMD! Are you saying you knew all along that was a lie?

Zagreb, man, be consistent! Why would you *not* support a war against Syria or Iran? You supported a war against Iraq for specious, or at the least, naive reasons...
The bodies in the mass grave, even now being found... Do you think that sounds *believable* to me? (It doesn't) The Americans have had control for a month. The bodies, supposedly all killed by Saddam (personally?) in 1991, all have clothing and ID intact. Yeah, that's likely...

I'm sorry, Zagreb, I just cannot believe anything the Americans say without independent confirmation - and that dont mean poodles, either!

>>But haven't they been a huge supporter of the Palestinian terrorist organizations?<<
Oh, Dubya's Dunderheads just trot that one (accusation) out whenever they feel like it. It's the one accusation no one can ever face... or so the Yankees believe.
Many right wing Christians will accept that on no evidence, as will
others - and Ariel Sharon gets his way again!
Check out http://www.albushra.org
(If that's right).

" The Americans have had control for a month. The bodies, supposedly all killed by Saddam (personally?) in 1991, all have clothing and ID intact. Yeah, that's likely..."

Even if it is real. Those are the bodies of people betrayed by the elder Bush

"You say they're still looking for WMD, Blatherskite, but it was in the newspapers here, that the USA has given up the pretence... and many of us never believed in the WMD in the first place!"

Reference?

"Do you believe in a tooth fairy?" - That isn't necessary.

The USA is probably treated a little unfairly over the Middle East. It is an extremely difficult region to deal with. The British Empire was generally taken apart pretty painlessly considering the enormity of the task, but the Middle East was one of the places where they really dropped the ball. There must have been a reason for that then, and I suspect that that reason has become worse.

I think the main reason the USA is seen in such a bad light in the area is its support of Israel with arms and money. Israel having broken numerous UN resolutions and international conventions, including nuclear non-proliferation.

Then there's this whole thing where any western penetration into the Middle East is labelled a crusade, with Arab Nationalists and Islamic Theocrats claiming that westerners, having been driven off before, are coming back for more. Then you've got Bin Laden claiming to follow in the footsteps of Saladin, who was actually a kurd and basically forgotten by the Islamic world until Kaiser Wilhem visited his grave in the 1890s. Bin Laden and co. have basically attempted to rewrite history to justify their actions in the present day, and the ironic thing is that they did it by plagarising European romanticism.

Just returning the subject line to what it originally was

Blatherskite,

'"You say they're still looking for WMD, Blatherskite, but it was in the newspapers here, that the USA has given up the pretence... and many of us never believed in the WMD in the first place!"

'Reference?'

US arms experts 'leaving Iraq'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3018063.stm



Ste

That seems to address the WMD references, and here are a couple about the lack of connection to terrorism:

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2001/09/21092001110708.asp

http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4596852,00.html

So I guess they must have gone for a different reason, huh?

::COUGH::

...funny how the ones who were previously calling for the weapons inspectors to be given more time...

...are now calling for the US to come up with the evidence immediately...indeed they are becoming a trifle impatient.

the other evidence of maddasses megolamania is brushed aside as 'fabrication'.

Ste: They're simply reducing the scale of the operation, because they don't expect to find weapons out in the open. Your article states that many of the sites were looted, which bodes poorly (remember the professional, pre-planned looting of the museum? how much worse would this be?). And Iraq had ample opportunities to hide them. A bunch of teams banging around in the desert are not going to find them now. It becomes detective work, which requires a smaller team.

cl zoomer: Both of your articles are outdated. Let's see what sort of evidence comes from the post-war era before we pass judgement.

Alec: "becoming impatient"? They've been clamoring for evidence of WMD since the second day of the invasion.

*And we all know that history is written by the winners! I feel nauseated listening to the news, all the mealy-mouthed rot from Mr Bremner - interesting to see how long 'Viceroy' Garner lasted, wasn't it? *

The replacing of of Garner a Technocrat with Bremmer an actuall Administrator is really qiute predictable. In the first weeks after the war you need to get services up and running a fast as possible and that is where a man like garner comes in. After the initial base services are back online then the everyday running of a country and setting uo a new political infastructure comes in to play. For that you need a man like Bremmer.

"Zagreb, man, be consistent! Why would you *not* support a war against Syria or Iran? You supported a war against Iraq for specious, or at the least, naive reasons..."

Because the people of Syria and Iran are not starving and dropping in their droves through sanctions. Because the government of Syria is not paranoid and exterminating 100s of people per year. And the government of Iran is elected by the Iranian people, so a war against them cannot be a war of liberation.

I fully support any efforts to stop Syria and Iran helping terrorists in the Middle East (as they still do). I think war is not justified in this case.

"The bodies in the mass grave, even now being found... Do you think that sounds *believable* to me? (It doesn't) The Americans have had control for a month. The bodies, supposedly all killed by Saddam (personally?) in 1991, all have clothing and ID intact. Yeah, that's likely..."

Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. Tyrants murder people they don't like. I don't understand why you persist in playing-down the well-know (not just in damn Yanquie imperialist circles) state-murder that Saddam engaged in with gusto. Those mass-graves do contain the bodies of victims of the regime (that actually are estimated at a great deal more than a few thousand). If you refuse to believe it because that regime became an enemy of the US, then fine.