h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Agreed, but that last statement goes both ways.

*All I hear now, is: America won, who *cares* if they(we) lied about our moptives, if there *are* no WMD... we 'liberated' Iraqis by the score and so everyone's happy now.
That makes me very angry! Especially as Syria looks like shaping to be next.
Mind you, at the risk of provoking comment, I think events in Riyadh yesterday proved that not everyone is rejoicing in the Middle East, nicht war? *

Della, America amy have sent a messageand won a battle but as Riyadh shows there is still a war ongoing. Syria is not the target Della though it may be a speed bump on the road to Iran.

Riyadh may finally trigger the Saudis to make something resembling effort against terrorism. That one could really backfire.

Starbirth, Syria is seen as a moderate by most Islamic countries, and indeed by most other countries as well. Do you really think that the invasion of a country which has openly either remained neutral or supported US policies in the past will solve any problems?

As to Iran, an easy truce has existed there for some time. If there, then where else in the future? Where would it end?

*Starbirth, Syria is seen as a moderate by most Islamic countries, and indeed by most other countries as well. Do you really think that the invasion of a country which has openly either remained neutral or supported US policies in the past will solve any problems?

As to Iran, an easy truce has existed there for some time. If there, then where else in the future? Where would it end? *

And some of those very Islamic Countrys see America as Satans home. What does that have to do with anything? I doubt the US will go into Syria. I think Syria is smart enough to see a new Geo political reality is now in place. They may grumble and even test the waters but at the end of the day they will accept it. Or not. As I say they are a but a road bump.

As for Iran Do not be surprised in the near future you start seeing broadcasts of the 1980s hostage taking. The role Iran hezbula played in the Lebenon marine barracks bombing. The strong anti american sentiments and religous ferver. The more recent role of iranian agents and infuence in middle east hot spots. You do not really believe the iraq war was about WMD, Freedom or even oil do you zoomer?

No, as I have said before I am sure those were just excuses.



So what is the title of this thread again?

Ohhhhh, I remember-

*It's Saddam, it's Bush*

Now that we know which it was, should we stop?

"next you'll be saying that liberating oil wells was worth the minimum 3,700 civilian (so far) body count. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/background.htm" Of course, we have to balance that against the body count of the continuation of the previous policy against Iraq (which would have been the only result of no war) 500,000 dead through sanctions, 200,000 killed in the crushed uprising, 1,000s dead through sporadic allied bombing. You might also want to note the people being found in those mass-graves being discovered who were liquidated by a regime that some in the anti-war movement told us was "none of our business" or (bless) "a different culture to us". I know which two evils is the lesser "those wells were well protected while everything else was looted." True, the army made little effort to stop the looting (which they seemed ill-prepared for and despite what some consipiracy nuts will tell you the US did *not* want looting or lawlessness. They screwed up on humanitarian aid too. Considering that Iraq's main industry is oil (and therefore the key to rebuilding the Iraqi economy) and that, yes, the West has considerable interest in Iraqi oil (and I've never denied this, I simply said that oil was not the sole reason for war) don't you think it would make a bit of sense to protect the oil wells? "I don't know... bloody liberals" Personally, I side with Polly Toynbee and Nik Cohen here - Liberalism is something worth fighting for. Amen to that. (And besides, a lot of that anti-war movement didn't sound very liberal to me - pessimistic, defeatist, isolationist and sometimes anti-American yes, but come to think of it never particularly liberal).

Oh, and if anyone's interested I don't support a war against Syria or Iran. Nor, to be honest, do I think there's going to be a war in either case.

"Riyadh may finally trigger the Saudis to make something resembling effort against terrorism. That one could really backfire."

Personally, I think the Saudi's take terrorism very seriously. What they tend to treat with kid-gloves is anti-Western terrorism. The Saudi regime is very much a fair-weather friend to the West. At heart it is a rightwing authoritarian absolute monarchy with anti-semitic sympathies. Saudi Arabia is also fairly powerful and sits on the largest oil reserves in the world, so they know they have some leverage over the West.

There is a considerable Islamic-fundamentalist feeling in Saudi that threatens the Monarchy. If the terrorism can be linked to that, rather than just "anti-Western" sympathies, you can bet the Saudi state will hit it hard.

"those wells were well protected while everything else was looted."

It is not the wells so much that the coalition rushed to secure.
the real prize is the pipeline that runs from the southern russian oil fields to the persian gulf. A pipeline that runs from a oil reserve that is the biggest in the world. Who ever controls that spigot controls the largestoil reserves known to man at this time.

Anybody remember a certain marrage? Standered Oil {american} who merged with BP British petrolium?

" pessimistic, defeatist, isolationist and sometimes anti-American yes, but come to think of it never particularly liberal)."

There is an obvious flaw. If being anti war is anti american. Then what about all the americans who were anti war?

Being anti-war is not being anti-American.

Condemning,Denouncing,Hating,Attacking Americans simply for being Americans is.

The funny thing about Iran being labelled in Bush's axis of evil as a terrorist country is that it would in no way be associated with Al'Quaida. What group is it that Bin Laden hates more than Jews, Christians, Americans and westerners in general? Shi'ite Muslims.

I thought he hated Saddam as well?

Which made the *link* statements suspect I believe.

It's hard to say what got Iran into the Axis, because they've been so quiet for the past 15 years or so. But haven't they been a huge supporter of the Palestinian terrorist organizations?

That can't be it, they get most of their money from Saudi Arabia, don't they? The whole Palestinian/Israeli thing with it's international supporters and shifting politics is too much for my pea brain. Every time I hear one side explain themselves, I go *That seems reasonable*.

And yet, every time one side makes the news, it makes me want to bang my head into a wall... which is a pretty good metaphor for what they're doing. I couldn't in good conscience support either side.

These are the two statements I wish I could prove or disprove:

The Israelis say that before now, there never was an entity or nation called *Palestine* therefore there is no repatriation required.

The Palestinians say that Israel was a nomad group that owned no land or had any rights before the 1940's.

If in fact they are both true then I could happily dismiss them both and let the whole thing go to hell in a handcart were it not for the weapons involved on the Israeli side and the suicide bombings on the Palestinian side.

Both of those statements are true. Technically, the British ruled the entire area. They carved it into a couple of nations and gave part of it to the Israelis, part of it to the Palestinians. They had the legal right to do so. Of course, moral right is a different story.

The sad thing about this whole affair is that most of the current problem stemmed from some misunderstandings regarding religion, and conflicts of interest surrounding their common holy sites. Reaction and reprisal has sort of blossomed from there, to the point where reprisal is the only thing either side understands.

The Israelis need to get the hell out of the settlements, and stop using the military as a terrorist organization. The Palestinians need to shut down their own terrorist organizations and come up with a viable government without Arafart's and the extremists' influence. And both of them need to get over their religious differences.