h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have not posted on this thread for about three weeks. However is sure is heart warming after an absence to see you all playing together so well.

A choir is so much more gratifying when they are all in harmony.

I heard Abouzaid, successor to Tommy Franks, on the WS this morning, acknowledging that the Iraq occupation *has turned* into another Vietnam! Will he be in trouble for saying that?

"However is sure is heart warming after an absence to see you all playing together so well."

It's pleasing to see that you're (slowly) coming around to a sensible point of view.

"Will he be in trouble for saying that?"

I should think so. It's very hard to be objective in America these days, for fear of being called unpatriotic. That's how effectively Bush has twisted the truth.

Even the democrats in the senate, however, are now saying that they feel conned and they regret backing the war.

I was going to have a one minute rant about this at the one minute rant page, but then

The one minute rant I'd have about war I think is revolutionay and moderateble so I'll just leave this link.

http://www.voy.com/65982/70.html

This is an illegal occupation of Iraq, looks set to continue and ought to stop. The total abscence of WMD undermines there reason to be there. So why are they there? UK troops out by September.

http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter/47540

I think starbirth has nailed down his contribution

That's superb Jenny. Especially the first link, everyone should read it.

Yes. Pro-war, imperialist, Bush-worshippers are finding it harder and harder to justify their stance these days and are getting rather desperate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3072221.stm

Excellent links, Purplejenny! (Especially the Bill O'Reilly one). The guy who called him excrement was not wrong!

It's the human need to always be right, otherwise they'd admit they were wrong. That's why Blair refuses to admit he was wrong. That need manifests differently in Bush. Maybe because he's not entirely human! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

In 1984, I learned that Ronald Reagan was an animatronic...

What I can't understand is why so many people now say they were mislead by the spin. I'm not talking about your average tabloid reading idiot, but the many apparently intelligent politicians who now say they were mislead. Either they're not as intelligent as they think they are, or they believed that, since Saddam was evil, everything he said was a lie, or both. It is true that Tony Blair is a highly skilled confidence trickster and Bush has a fine line in evangelical rhetoric, but it wasn't hard to see through them, was it?



Dry.

"What I can't understand is why so many people now say they were mislead by the spin."

In Tony Blair's case I have come to the conclusion that he never really believed the bollocks he's been talking but he took Britain to war because he knew that war was inevitable and believed that it was necessary to appease Washington. As if that wasn't bad enough, he continues to insult the public's intelligence by saying he still believes the invasion was just.

In the case of the Americans who fell for the spin (I know I'll be criticised for saying this) Americans really do believe (perhaps even subconsciously) that their countrymen are morally superior, that their leaders would never lie to them and that their nation can do no wrong. The fact that such belief ammounts to belief in a master-race and that history has repeatedly shown it to be nonsense, seems to have no effect on their delusion. And so it continues.

America arrogantly believes that it alone has the right to run unchecked programs of WMDs and that it alone sits in moral judgement over the rest of the world. While this arrogance exists, America wil continue to act with impunity. Might is right (apparantly).

"I learned that Ronald Reagan was an animatronic."

A seriously defective one, obviously.

> In the case of the Americans who fell for the spin (I know I'll be criticised for saying this) Americans really do believe (perhaps even subconsciously) that their countrymen are morally superior, that their leaders would never lie to them and that their nation can do no wrong. The fact that such belief ammounts to belief in a master-race and that history has repeatedly shown it to be nonsense, seems to have no effect on their delusion. And so it continues.

You trying to start something, Empty? I do dislike these blanket statements - they make judgements about a group of people, when the reality is that *all* the Americans I know are scared s**tless about the current state of the government. We have no faith in our leaders, and are seriously worried how these current events will damage future relations with other nations. The truth is, anybody that runs for President that isn't frothing at the mouth will have at least 40% of the vote, hands down.

I get the impression that nobody 'fell' for the spin. The people that knew what was going on promoted the war as a patriotic effort, in hopes that the dumb rednecks would jump on the bandwagon and wave their little plastic flags. But everybody knew that the Republicans were telling lies and distorting the truth - the Democrats tried to obstruct the war and got labeled as cowards, while the Republicans knew they were being lied to and didn't care - the end justified the means, in their opinion.

So the media, largely bipartisan and middle of the road (except for conservative Fox) tried to cover what they perceived as American enthusiasm for the war. So this has ended up as being a big intelligence mess, all the way 'round.

Lentilla, I have to side with Empty on this one - although I know of frustrated and angry Americans like you, who opposed the war and see right through the plastic flag waving. Dubya obviously believes that the 40% he'll get can be made to be enough!
Blair is facing an enquiry - what does Dubya have to worry about, especially with Ari Flesheater (thanks for the name by the way) going on Letterman and shouting spite, so that even Dave remarked that it was as if he'd never left the job!

"I get the impression that nobody 'fell' for the spin."

Lentilla, I wish that was true. But if it was, the invasion would never have happened. You mention "dumb rednecks waving their little plastic flags". What is that if it's not falling for the spin?

Your realism is refreshing to see. But I'm afraid that you're in a minority. The majority of Americans remain stupidly, blindly patriotic.

Since the war began I've spoken to Americans who firstly believed the lies emanating from the Bush administration, then when that was no longer possible they reluctantly acknowledged the lies but actually defended Bush's right to lie to them. Now (perhaps most incredibly of all) they're hoping it'll all just blow away and saying that they intend to vote for Bush again. What is all that if it's not stupid, irrational, patriotic denial?

It's certain that Bush couldn't be happier about this blind jingoism. It gifts him the easy impunity he needs for his vile evil acts.

The flag makes a convenient blindfold.

<<Since the war began I've spoken to Americans who firstly believed the lies emanating from the Bush administration, then when that was no longer possible they reluctantly acknowledged the lies but actually defended Bush's right to lie to them. <<
They defend his right to lie to them? That's appalling! Mind, I did hear from people who simply said, 'Oh, just accept that Bush/Blair know things we don't, and that makes it all right!

Men are Compulsive Liars.

Interesting! Who, what, when and where?