h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Very informative article.

But I frankly detest Goth culture. Are goths ever cheerful? I mean, with all this perverted fascination with evil, I would imagine that the mind would grow warped and un-healthy. I'm not saying that death is bad bad thing, and that it should never be mentioned, I just don't think its that big a deal; "So we live, so we die."

But how sick are goths to dwell solely on death? And you say Goths are non-violent? Does pain not come from violence? Not necessarily physical, but it is violent.

In my opinion, goths are sad, sad, sad, lonely people who want to create a niche for themselves in society by being not greater than the people of their time, but being worse. Instead of rising above, goths seem to sink below.

Nice article, though!

"..with all this perverted fascination with evil...the mind would grow warped and unhealthy.."
In my opinion goths lead a less stressful life than your average person. They accept things for what they are, seeing beauty in all. I don't think this is violent. I think it's much calmer than normal society.

"In my opinion, goths are sad, sad, sad, lonely people who want to create a niche for themselves in society..."
Interesting opinion. Looks exactly the same as the opinion of every other person who doesn't know enough about Goth culture to be able to respect it.

And in reply to 'are goths ever cheerful'..
Yes.

Perky goth - caffeine, caffeine, *bounce*!

Umm.......just got back from a night at a goth club - lots of happy goths there

(NB: I'm not a goth but I know a few).

Yes, I can understand how Goths might be happy;

Goths may be leading a less stressfull life, but is it contributary to society in any manner? If I were to pull away from life, live as a recluse, I would be an INCREDIBLY stress-free person. Less stress is not necessarily an indicator of a healthy mind.

question: What is a goth's perspective on life and its purpose?
(seriously, I want to know!)


Shaggy

Margaret Thatcher, British Prime Minister for the best part of 12 years said, and I quote, "There is no such thing as society."

She was the Prime Minister who declared war on Argentina over the Falkland Islands.

End result of this pointless exercise? Many stressed-out black-tuxedo-wearing penguins.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I fail to grasp this awe-inspiring concept. What the...?



Shaggy

I said. The stressed-out black-tuxedo-wearing penguins were dressed in a similar manner to Goths

You said. Less stress is not necessarily an indicator of a healthy mind.

I say. The penguins were living a healthy stress-free life until a human who didn't believe there was such a thing as society disrupted the penguins society.

Moral of story. Goths, survive quite nicely as long as interfering busybodies don't invade their space and try to change their self-made peaceful environment - as do penguins who dress in a similar style (the colour of choice is black) to Goths... as do some reclusive Catholic priests and nuns... and America's Amish... and others.

The whole retreat from accepted society norms thing is quite common in many societies, a lotof of whom choose the colour black fot their clothing

Let's try the last par again

The whole retreat from accepted society norms thing is quite common in many societies, a lot of whom choose the colour black for their clothing

Can I just point out that most Goths i know do not withdraw from society - they have jobs, pay taxes, donate to charity and have an intrest in the world about them; they just have slightly diffent view of what its all about, and choose to socilize with like minded people like a less formal version of the masons.

Penguins aren't humans. They don't apply.
Nuns etc. withdraw from society to attain a goal that is higher than society itself. To desire to be with God, is a noble ideal.

Happy-Dude,
I didn't say Goth's withdraw from society, I just suggested that there are ways to being stress-free that are not necessarily good for you and the rest of society. And if you look at the entry above yours, you will see that Loonytunes said that Goths DO withdraw from society, and it isn't a bad thing.


Shaggy

Guys, don't mind me. I'm just an old bodgie who has been teasing you

Bodgie (n) Australasian - an unruly or uncouth young man, especially in the 1950s/60s; teddy boy.

Withdraw is probaly too strong a term, although probaly true to say the do not share the same goals. I would describe most Goths of my accquantance as happy & well balanced in there own way.

Hi there!
Just got(h) back from a little vacation, just in time to offer my two cents worth.
Let's see... Ok, let's chuck in a Goth joke: There's a Goth couple walking past a funeral procession and she says to him: "Oh, listen! They're playing our song!"

Shaggy, you might want to check out these sides, too:

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And, as the old latin saying goes: Damnat quod non intelligunt (They curse what they do not understand).
The thing is that when you (as a non-Goth) meet a Goth on the street, s/he is truly not the person who would tell you a joke or give a warm smile to stranger; nor would s/he appreciate it if you were to do these things. But if you were to put on a disguse and sneak into a Goth Club you'd probably find out that among themselves they behave much like any other bunch of people in a club (give or take).

Perky-Goth
Lisa: ever taken the Perky Goth-Test @

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Well, yes, the non-violent bit could have been clarified by indicating that this was about outwardly orientated violence.

To answer the question ("What is a goth's perspective on life and its purpose?")
I say: Life is something that is, something that happens. Life can be a lot of fun and life can be hell. Life ends inevitably.
The purpose of life is to Be. Be what _you_ feel _you_ are, do what _you_ feel is "you", not what others (incl. media) tell you to be *like*. You are yourself, thus be like yourself, not like someone else.
Does that make any sense?

As for withdrawing: The Goths I know and hang out with are not really withdrawn from society. Two are working on their J.D. (Doctor of Law), one is with a larger newspaper, a state bank and the next does a Doctor in Engineering.
So they do take part in "normal" life, earn their keep and interact with society on a daily basis. They do not visit sport events, not watch MTV, nor roam the neighbourhood with the car's stereo blaring and all windows down, they do wear as much black as possible. In that respect they withdraw from society. The withdrawl is mental not physical.

"Nuns etc. withdraw from society to attain a goal that is higher than society itself"
I guess the Goth's goal is to Be; Be Herself, Be Himself.

Gawd, sound terrible. Maybe I should go into preaching?
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PS:

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Spent New years Eve in a Goth Club - blinding night

Goths do not sink below society. They separate themselves from it. They do not care about
society one bit, and I myself find society a disgusting mess. Most do not have an obsession with
death. It is an acceptance, as with what U call evil this is rarely the case. They can see beauty
in what society teaches people to be evil. However, I must admit these things do not apply in all
cases. Sounds to me like u've only been in contact with wannabes'

Very confused, kinda thinking I may be sorta a Goth @ heart. But give me an example of beauty in evil.

Well, to tell the truth, I don't believe in evil. Evil is an excuse for the dark side of human nature. People see "evil" in different ways.

Evil is often hard to define as so many people have a different idea of what evil is.

My idea of evil is an act of intentionally hurting someone soley for self benifit.

Unfortunately this idea isnt shared by many people. I get the impression most ideas of evil are created on a religous veiwpoint.

Not to sound like I'm Mr.Knowitall, I feel I have a good understanding of what it is to be Goth and have a full repect toward the lifestyle.

Copy-paste of my posting at the <?> thread concerned with the same question:

Entity, I think you are referring to the sentence: "Goths take things that society claims are evil, sinful, painful, or wrong, and make them beautiful."
The question which must be answered first is "what is evil?"
If we were to go by Webster's definition we'd say it's "morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked". And maybe we can agree that "society" (whoever that might be... ) would consider sleeping in a coffin or meeting at a graveyard evil in that sense.
Now, sleeping in a coffin is certainly not mandatory or even widespread (it's difficult to fit two people in a coffin and the things are rather expensive). But imagine a pitch black coffin, painted with the same stuff that's used for grand pianos, silver fittings, the inside covered in velvet, silk and lace. Beauty in that because of the exquisite style and material.
Meeting some people at a graveyard can be seen as sick and close to necrophilia. And "society" would associate plundering and/or damaging of graves with that. But one can meet people there and sit quietly amongst the graves and philosophise about life and death. Imagine that with an ancient graveyard, say 300 years old, ivy growing over crumbling stone and flaky iron. Decaying stone angles and huge trees. The moon peeks out from the clouds once in a while. Dark romance, beauty. And no-one would think about damaging any of these graves.
The beauty referred to does not mean that "society" now thinks these things/concepts beautiful, but that they are thus for the Goths and society might see a new aspect/facet of it. Maybe they'd see sleeping in a coffin not as straightforward sick, morbid and twisted and evil but as a strange twist of romantic spirit.
I hope this makes some sense.
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