h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Surely you should credit Tolkien for if not creating orcs in the first place (I don't know for sure) then at least popularizing them. It's been my experience that most of the "fantasy world" creatures out there in D&D and post-Lord of the Rings books either owe a huge debt to, or blatantly rip off from Tolkien's work.

Ditto

Right. I'm actually reading the Lord of the Rings right now, and Tolkien almost seems to use the words "orc" and "goblin" interchangablly. This is evident when he is describing an attack party of orcs and starts talking about "the larger goblins" in the group.

The words "orc" and "goblin" come from 14th century Old French from Middle High German.

When I was at primary school, many years before I read Tolkein, I had heard of Orks. In those days they were closely associated with Trolls. Trolls come from Scandinavian folklore.

Granted Tolkein brought Orcs to a wider, English-speaking, audience.

What is a "dork" then? It might be that this word is only commonly used in N. America. Is Dork a modification of Orc. Or do Orcs often become total Dorks?

Orcs are mythical monsters. A dork is a dull stupid fatuous person. [synonyn jerk]

Present company excepted of course.

Of course, perhaps

"A dork is a dull stupid fatuous person"

Actually, it's a penis.

Dork = Dick = Jerk.

I re-read Lord of the Rings lately. Interestingly, in opposition to the distinction made in most RPGs, Tolkein seems often to refer to the larger orcs as goblins.

The Prophet

OK, I am going to become very unpopular now.
But, Tolkien did not write a bible. He is a very telented writer, and I love his work, it just happens that this article is not about Tokiens orcs, it is about ordinary Orcs as we all know them (as included in AD&D)

LewiDK

This article is about AD&D Orcs as AD&D players know them. The AD&D Monster Manual is not a bible either, I'm afraid.

Perhaps you should check with Gary Gygax, the creator of D&D as to whether he was influenced by Tolkien, I think the odds are he was, in a big way. Tolkien was extremely knowledgable about mythology and language and if you are going to write a difinitve description of "Orcs" his version should be considered carefully

The words "orc" and "goblin" come from 14th century Old French from Middle High German. Tolkein kidnapped a few for his own purposes in the 20th century.

The guide probably needs an article on 20th century orcs to complement (not replace) this one. Now which of the critics in this forum is going to write it?

What? Stop whinging and write something?

But hangon - this entry here is on a particular sort of 20th century orc, no? The AD&D sort... so the new article would be better titled "Non AD&D Orcs", if this one stays as is (which looks likely). Plus it could then look at 14th century orcs, which this article also appears to ignore. Unless AD&D Orcs are the same as the 14th century orcs - which they might be - I'm no folklore expert...

AD & Dorcs?

This posting is purely bassed on As Far As I Know information.

AFAIK there is a possibility of adding to an article, and thereby building it with all the information it SHOULD contain.

Unfortunately, the only Orcs I know of are the ones used in AD&D, CRPG's and the different books I've read (including Tolkiens The Hobbit, or at least I think it's the same kinda Orcs)
So please, I would take it as an honor if you would add the information on the 14th century, Tolkien and other orcs.

This was more or less my idea when I wrote the article

LewiDK

I have a copy of a Tolkien Bestiary in front of me right now and it states the word ORC is the Elvish(Sindarin Dialect) term for what dwarves refer to as GOBLINS. However the form of ORC the form that the dwarves are familer with that dwell in the depths of Arda(Earth) are much smaller and have larger eyes.

Often fantasy material gets ORCs mixed up with their more powerful hybrids the URUK-HAI. Making the ORCs more larger and musculer. Not at all the way Tolkien depicts them. And after all tolkien invented the creatures that are now used by almost every fantasy medium from video games(Warcraft) to War-gaming(Warhammer).

If you wish to find out more about ORCs try reading any Tolkien Novel especially The Silmarillion which even tells of the origons of the ORCs as mutilated tortured elves.

But the Uruks of Mordor were also much bigger and more powerful than their kin in the misty mountains, and in one or two places, Tolkien definitely refers to especially big orcs as goblins.

Of course, the main difference between Tolkien's orcs and those in fantasy games is that the former are not just arrow fodder, but actually quite butch and scary. They only get mowed down by serious hero types, such as the warriors of the Fellowship.

I agree. After all, though, we're talking about a fictional race and since we are, every one is going to have a different opinion. the orcs I know about are tolkien's orcs. I think, when dealig with a matter such as this, it is best to go with the earliest known source. so since LOTR was written, what 50 years ago, thats what we should go with, or something earlier, whoever coined the term