A Conversation for Orcs in Role-playing Games

Disrespecting the Man

Post 21

Rehash

If you look up the word "Orc" in an old copy of Brewers (Pre-Tolkien) you'll find it defined as an Irish sea monster. However under "Ogre" a man eating creature called "Orcus" is mentioned.
Also worth considering is that "Uruk" (What Tolkien's Orcs are called in the "black toungue") is the name of an ancient city somewhere in present day Iraq.

In other words (bad pun) Tolkien just pinched names and words from where ever he liked and did what he pleased with them.


Disrespecting the Man

Post 22

Mr Jester, CEO of the bored

very bad pun, but in a good way


Disrespecting the Man

Post 23

AgProv2

Interesting article - seeking to expand on Tolkien's concept of Orcs as mere cannon-fodder and expendable footsoldiers in the dark armies.

Just as an "aside", let's digress into the works of Michael Moorcock (the other great influence on Gygax when setting up the underlying philosophy and ground-rules for D&D. Moorcock created the idea of Law-Neutrality - Chaos, as an evolved alternative to Good/Evil)

In Moorcock's fantasy novels, there is no race which is expressly called "orc" or "goblin".

However, there is a sense of an ordered, evolutionary process that places a sort of sub-human, bestial, pseudo-human entity at the bottom of a scale that could be described as "human". Then above this debased creature comes Man proper. Then, as far above Men as men are above he bestial, comes a creation which Moorcock explicitly defines as "Elven" or "Eldar", which directly equates to Tolkien's Elves. The Eldar have other names in Moorcock's cosmology - Melniboneans, Vadragh or Nadraragh - but are very definitely cousins to Tolkien's Eldar.

Meanwhile, it is explicitly stated in the books (see the Elric series) that human beings, once sold to Chaos, will degenerate into savage beast-men who are in appearance and manner cousins to Tolkien's Orcs.

The cosmology is clear on this: Eldren affiliate to Law; the beast-men are things corrupted by Chaos.

In one set of books (Hawkmoon), the Chaos link is more subtle: in the evil empire of GranBretan, the armies of evil wear animal masks as they go about their work of world conquest. Even so, they look like men in Orc costumes, and behave accordingly.

(Question: how far have Moorcock and Tolkien influenced the gaming system for Games workshop things like Warhammer 40,000? Very closely, I should think)


Disrespecting the Man

Post 24

h2g2 Guide Editors

Editor's note, the EGE on Tolkien's Orcs is here: A87871701

h2g2 Eds


Key: Complain about this post

Write an Entry

"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."

Write an entry
Read more