h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am not going to start a useless discussion with people who will not be convinced anyway. You just can't win.

I replied(I think) in the only classy way that I know of : non-violent and fair... what more you want to do with this biased useless forum is up to all of you...

CYA,

TM.

"...Mankind's second most disgusting habit (after war)..."
In other words, Peet, as far as you're concerned, smoking is worse than murder, rape, torture, child abuse and the continuation of economic systems that condemn millions to desperate poverty or starvation.
Have you ever thought of having a sense of perspective installed?

I agree with you TM.
I know you'll read this even though you say you stepped out, because well, well just because .

Anyway, and this is for you too Peta, I'm seriously considering writing a contending article on smoking now. Wanna join, TM?
(you can post something on my *revised* page, if you don't want to here...)

Thanks I'll post it here...(BTW does anyone remember the original version of that quote ?).

Well to be honest I may put my 2 cents worth in but I would rather write about things that do not evolve into endless yes/no/yes/no/yes/no-arguments. I can watch Monthy Python's Argument-sketch for that. So topics I will normally not discuss personally include :

- Religion - what is the best one
- Smoking/drinking/drugs - What is the worst for you
- 'Justified' violence - Virtuality in extremis
- Was Oasis better than Blur - And did they sound like the Beatles?
- Etc.

You get my meaning I presume....

If you write such an article I am always available for constructive criticism so...drop a line...like via ICQ ?

TM.

Though the act itself is lesser, the number of perpetrators is greater.

Dear Mr. President,

I'll join the debate if you want. First, though, I'll point out that I only edited the article, and didn't significantly change it: I believe it still basically represents the views of the original author (Nihil). That's what we aim for in all articles here in the Guide - as Peta has said, if you want to balance it, submit an article of your own.

I thought that this article was actually pretty light and innocent. It basically says that:
1. Smoking is rather a silly and/or pointless thing to do. Plenty of people don't do it, and their lives aren't demonstrably less fulfilled, so I say fair enough.
2. Smoking kills people, and before that it damages their respiratory system. That is now accepted even by tobacco companies, so if you want to argue against it you're in the minority.
3. Smoking is a choice many people make, and there are places that it's ridiculous to try to ban smoking, like bars.
4. Many people want to quit but most of those can't. Common experience (especially this last new year) seems to back that up. The section on quitting was made up from contributions by people who have themselves either succeeded or failed in giving up - it was humorous because most human endeavours are pretty ridiculous, if you know how to look at them.


What it didn't say was:
Smokers are bad people.
Smokers deserve to die or get cancer.
Smoking is worse than drinking, war, murder or train spotting.
I repeat: it DOESN'T say any of that. Clear your head of paranoia, then go and read it again.

To Peet - in my opinion as a semi-official person, wishing a painful death on anyone is a pretty clear violation of the rules of the site (check them). It's also downright impolite. We don't need that kind of inflammatory talk, and it only hurts your argument.

To everyone who took this as a personal attack or a call to holy war - for goodness' sake, get a sense of humour, all of you.

Gary / GVI

...and this is the point where I must also say: Hmm, I never thought my piece would raise such a racket...

But it was what I was after- I doubt a lot of the arguments of the antismoking lobby, and all that, What I didn't like about the article itself was exactly that it treated smoking so superficially, not that it insulted smokers. There's just more to cigarettes than what the article says.

To end my participation on this forum : there are several things one (IMHO) should take into consideration when writing an article..

- Contents(of course)
- Writingstyle
- Implications(as in 'wrote a piece that will arouse people)
- And as a result of that) : strong responses...

Or as the say abroad : If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen...

With lots of tolerance,

TM.

nobody deserves to get lung cancer

Of course not. And you'd have to be a complete and utter Peet to disagree.

Volcanoes smoke!!!
Earthquakes smoke!!!
I smoke!!!
I think I'm in good company. Good ol' Earth.

Yes but take it easy e.z... Guns do too...

TM.

...and so do black smokers. Small holes at the bottom of the deepest seas.

Duh!

That doesn't mean that smokers live at the bottom of deep seas, or that they spew hot lava, ot that they cause cities to collapse when their stomachs rumble. The metaphor only goes so far...
the point I'm trying to make? None, but then so aren't you.

Wow! Quite a little can of worms there!
I happen to apparently have contributed to this article and although I cannot remember when it was probably via a forum of some sort and was almost definitely (part of) the section on quitting.
I am 21 years old and, horror of horrors, have been smoking for about nine (yes 9) years (correct I started at the ripe old age of 12)
Although, I agree, the article does have a rather mocking tone, that was not how I contributed, the main points on quitting (nicotine replacement, habitual problems etc) are valid to some extent (perhaps excluding aversion therapy although using a different example this can work).
And what makes me think I know what I'm talking about? First, I have tried most of the quitting methods at some point in my life but have always returned to ciggies. Second, as part of my degree course I happen to have studied smoking cessation to a small extent and I can tell you that nicotine IS as addictive as Heroin, if not more so.
Now although I agree this is far from a definitive article it has certainly made a start. I don't seriuosly believe that any of you use the guide for a complete unbiased, unamusing, not-so-slightly skew vision of a subject. If you wanted to do that you'd be checking the national medical journals etc. etc. or contacting professors in the field of Medicine and Pharmacy.

That said, glad I've contributed to a site that has made you think.

You are missing the point Camp Freddy,

Even if smoking is as addictive as heroine it still doesn't do as much damage... So comparing the two is not very realistic...

Smoking reduces your lifespan..yes...at a later age you may suffer.
Heroine destroys your life...period... it leads to crime because you NEED it and it's very expensive...so you rob cars...and innocent bystnders...

If cigarettes would become as expensive as heroine I would quit...I would also lose faith in 'the system'...what is worse...??

TM.

Heroin in and of itself is not as bad as smoking, compared to other 'legal' drugs, especially alcohol. It is the illicit nature of heroin it is the things added to heroin (cement dust is one that comes to mind) that make it poisonous. Because heroin is 'cut' with these other substances, you never know how strong a dose you are receiving, hence you OD or, you need another hit sooner. I read a statement somewhere that you can tell a lot about a society by their means of recreation (I think it may have been Tolstoy?) Anyway isn't it amusing that in this day and age people aere knocking themselves out, killing themselves, and stealing/robbing for a pain killer?

On channel 4 a couple of nights ago there was a documentary on the UK sex industry. The cameras followed a "new recruit" home after her first "interview" to ask her why she was willing to show her body to strangers for money. She introduced her two small children and said she couldn't afford to buy them adequate bedding - they had one sheet and one blanket between them, and they took turns to have the blanket. She said she was prepared to abandon any last shreds of dignity in order to buy blankets for her children.

As she was saying this, she was unwrapping a packet of cigarettes and lighting up. The price of that pack would easily have paid for a decent blanket from a charity shop... So, from how I interpret it, she was willing to give up her "last shreds of dignity" and strip in front of strangers rather than do without a couple of packets of cigarettes.

Oh, btw, about 17 years ago I was living in digs, and over a short period shared a room with a smoker, and shared a room with a junkie. The junkie's habit was by far the less intrusive and offensive, and only the smoker ever resorted to raiding the coffee fund to maintain his habit. That's my personal experience - draw your own conclusions.

I'm not saying that smoking is AS BAD as a taking Heroin, I am merely pointing out that the addictive properties are similar - many people don't realise this. I do not also want to seem that I am defending or supporting smoking, if I could change my life I would never have started in the first place. I agree that smoking can be intrusive but I don't think people who have never smoked should make judgements on smokers or suggest that giving up is easy. I contributed to the section to give people an idea of what aids were available (although it is already out of date) so that if they decide to give up, they know they can get help. The biggest thing someone giving up smoking needs is support, not to be judged because they have a disgusting 'habit', it IS an addiction after all.

Still pleased to have so much response to this article though. . .Maybe I'll take risks with my others in future!

I am sorry but being someone who has quit smoking for about 10 months in the past AND someone who has SEEN a heroine-addict go Cold Turkey I can tell you most definitely that there is a distinct difference : withdrawal symptoms. Trying to quit smoking cigarettes will not kill you, trying to stay of harddrugs may very well do so.

TM.

Heroin ruins your life becos it makes you steal to fund the habit? In that case it only ruins the POOR persons life.
I smoked for 10 years. Quit last year. Don't feel physically better except that colds and coughs don't last as long. Have no more money than I did have. My sense of smell and taste has not improved. I have not put on weight. I am a bit of a rabid anti smoker becos that helps me not start again (to moan and then start again would be hypocrisy and I dion't want to be accussed of that.)
Why did I quit? Fear of Lung cancer? Nah. Vanity. Didn't want to have a mouth like a cats arse by the time I was 40. Didn't want niccotine stained fingers. Didn't want to smell.
The smoker ENJOYS smoking - I still have the occasional Herbal Fag. But I am quite glad to be no longer addicted to niccotine. I prefer not to have such *obvious* addictions