h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Today I witnessed true fear, paranoiac fear even ... and a cold, unfeeling hatred.

Hatred by a person who professes to represent a faith of love and forgiveness, and this is what has made me sad.

I live in a small Welsh town where the dominant local centres of faith are the Pentecostal and Evangelical churches. Mostly they are good people. They are my neighbours and friends, my children's teachers, doctors and playgroup leaders.

Is what I saw on the web-site highlighted by a friend, this fear and loathing, is this what my neighbours believe? Is the outpouring of bitterness against Wicca, Paganism, D&D and even Pokemon, what they believe? Is it what they teach their children? Is it what they would teach mine?

Can I not practice my faith quietly and with dignity, without having to worry what my neighbours will think of me? How they would act towards me if they knew?

As it is I do not openly profess my faith? I keep it to myself. I have children and do not want them ostracised, bullied or made fun of because their dad’s a Druid.

According to this ‘Reverend’, this self-appointed representative of the merciful Christian god, my friends and I are evil, perverted servants of the ‘devil’, who perform human sacrifice. Please tell me this guy is not for real? That this is not a widely held belief amongst the evangelical community? I know there are many Christians amongst this page’s visitors. Please stand up and be counted.

In the rapid regeneration of the pagan paths over the past few years, and the protection afforded them by increasingly enlightened human rights legislation (in Europe at least), I had thought I had seen a new age dawning. A new age where the all-consuming fascism of the twentieth century c.e., was to be left behind. But here it is, big and bold and coming at ya!

We do not believe what they believe, so we have no value. We are beyond redemption and thus surplus to requirements. And we all know where that argument ends... through a gate marked 'Arbeit Macht Frei'.

Well I refuse to lie down. I will not go quietly into this good night. I will not believe that this man represents all Christians – as he claims. I totally refuse to fall into his trap of hate and counter-hate, as so many other pagans have.

Until my dying day I will hold out the hand of love and friendship to any person who seeks to know their own soul. I welcome their diversity. I respect their paths, for every person’s path is their own. Their relationship to their god(s) is as valid as mine.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

I will stand and be counted.

Matholwch, I have never met you, and all the knowledge I have of you stems from this website. But I am prepared to say that I have never - not once, in all the time I've known you - thought 'here is a man of the devil.' I leave that kind of cruel, merciless and un-Christlike judgement to other people, people who have decided that such (in the words of Justin) 'effette' teachings as love, forgiveness and charity are above them.

And now, I am afraid, I must sound like Justin. I aim for one thing: to be the most rigid, doctrinal Christian there is. I plan to selfishly count all mankind as my brothers and sisters. I strive, unrepentantly, to turn the other cheek, and in my inflexibility work to love those who spitefully abuse me. And so, Matholwch, I should logically be as hated as you, because surely by following Christ's example I am failing! I should denounce you, not accept you! I should hate you rather than love you! Rules were made to be broken - and Jesus's commandment is the easiest of the lot to break.

So here is your guarantee that I am not a Christian. By the standards you cite I do not merely fall short: I am steering away from the golden path. My aquaintances are pagans, sinners and sodomites. Anthea, my best friend, professes a faith that counts Satan in higher regard than God. So I guess I am among them, since I don't deny them the right to live free from persecution, fear and intolerance.

It surely isn't enough, coming from a non-Christian like myself, but I esteem your views far above those of this 'Reverend'. Or - and I give you a choice, because I'm willing to stake my faith on this - you can let me call myself Christian, flying in the face of all evidence, and believe that this man bears the title in name only, because it seems that this site is casting a heck of a lot of stones.

- Jordan

In Christtian doctrine, Christ became "one for all".
He came to this world as a pauper, or "common man", because to be seen as "better than" others would not be reaching those who needed the most love.
If Christ came into this world a king, he would have been another elitist snob who thought like those you are speaking of think.
I, myself, am all religions, yet I am none of them.
Unfortunately I have seen many Evangelicals who spout such hatred. In fact, most of them do, in my experience.
If we study the mythology that Christians follow, the stories of miracles, faith, beliefs, and happenings in the Bible, it would appear that most of Christianity is patterned after the same sorts of beliefs Druids, Wiccans, and those like me have. Yet, we are ostracised by our peers for our beliefs.
I believe in truth and love, dignity of person, gentleness, kindness, willingness to help wherever it is needed. That, to me, is what Christianity is supposed to be about.
However, we humans can pervert the very best of everything, can't we? We try to legislate everything in the naieve hopes of "making everything better for everyone".
It has never worked that way, and as far as I can see, it never will.

Matholwch~
Please continue to be the loving you that you are.
I admire your stand. I gain courage from it, my friend.
Keep on keeping on.
Karen

You know the old joke about the locker room?
And those who talk the loudest?

Ol' Mouthy over there is not a Christian. He's a preacher to the choir. He's telling them what they want to hear, because that is easier than telling them what they don't want to hear.

The truest form of Christianity is unsafe, personal and edgy, it teaches by example and it loves wholly, not by halves.
While Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword, and that families would be broken up because of him, I think that was just a statement of bare fact. Not necessarily a prophecy.

I have used the story of Christ healing the temple servant's ear after St. Pete whacked it off as teaching tool for overzealous 'Christians'.
If you wound someone with your attitude, then that means that Christ will have to heal them if the message is to be gotten across. Every mean 'Christian' is a convert to the devil and you can tell them that Christ said so.

So, boss, I wouldn't let the little impotent weasel bother you. Most great actors don't read their reviews. Unless they are good ones and someone else points them out to them.

And on Sunday, I will be down at my local Southern Baptist Church, sitting in my sunday school class, doing my bit to introduce a little of Christ's thinking into a moderately backward theological diatribe... from the lesson writer... whose words will be read directly from the lesson book.
I never pick up a lesson book.
I just take my Bible.

I did that once, and got myself kicked out of churchc
It was the service before Christmas, too
I spoke out about loving people, and Christ becoming one for all, and the Preacher's wife degraded me in the class, and told me that I needed to keep quiet, because we weren't there to discuss things like that. I told her that some of the Native Elders I knew were more practicing Christians than some people at the church, and that just because they went to a Sweat, that didn't mean they were "ungodly".
So, I got kicked out.

I never went back.
PENTECOSTALS!!!!!!! BAH!!!!!!!
Now my children are going to hell because I don't take them to "The Church" anymore

I just became a Minister, instead.
I have our own services at home.
We believe what is in our own personal doctrines, and none of it is hatred.
Karen

I apologise for my intrusion, but I happened to be calling at FwT's Manor, and saw this conversation.

In my long experience, I have found that there are many shades of Christianity, just as there are many shades of Islamic Worship, and many shades of Judaism. If you find that you are uncomfortable with ALL of them, and ALL creeds, this is not in itself a sign that you are abandoned by God, but rather that God has given you a sign that you have the ability to see him in a different way.

Again, I'm sorry for "butting in".

Regards

P.

Now, there's an interesting thought.

Those who truly understand Christ don't need a franchise. They're busy doing what they're supposed to.

And if you are clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, comforting the sick and visiting those in prison, then you won't have much time for pointing fingers.

As Christ said, also, anyone can love their friends and hate their enemies, but it takes guts to love your enemies.

Hi Matholwch!

Just before my 8th birthday, we moved to live in Colwyn Bay. We were Catholics, but our next door neighbours were a Welsh family from Glan Conwy. They were Ebenezer chapel, as were their extended family and friends.

I'm telling you this so you can see that I know the sort of people you're talking about. Closed and painful lives they lead, hard on everyone else, and often just as brutal toward themselves.

<Is what I saw ... this fear and loathing, is this what my neighbours believe? Is the outpouring of bitterness against Wicca, Paganism, D&D and even Pokemon, what they believe? Is it what they teach their children? Is it what they would teach mine?>

In short, yes. This is the real challenge for a person of faith (as in "woman of colour"! ) living in the real world. How to live with - and even love - people whose lives revolve around identifying people as 'other' (i.e. 'other' than 'us'):

We love US; we hate THEM. If you are of US, we must at least tolerate you. But if you are of THEM, we can insult, beat, rape or kill you, and it's not only OK, it's virtuous.

You are a good man, Matholwch, but not everyone has the strength to be that good, that understanding. You must forgive these people their trespasses against you (as the Lord's Prayer taught me since before I can remember! ); you have no choice. You must act as your conscience dictates, but not expect others to adopt - or even respect - your beliefs.

But it's worth it. Can you imagine living like them? Could you tolerate a life full of hatred, envy and greed? Theirs is a harsh life, whether they know it or not. I couldn't take it. So I have to live with them instead, and hope they don't focus on me as one of THEM....

Even my own family think my pantheism is some kind of joke I tell people, to wind them up.... They have no serious felling for religion, or belief, at all. Oh well.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Math, no offense but you seem like a nice guy, and I've seen your piccy from the last meet and there is an unfortunate lack of horns [though it is possible that you hid them under your hair].

In short, there are bigoted people out there who have 'closed minds': ones that like to compartmentalise people into shoe boxes so they can brand them good or evil, instead of seeing people for what they are. But having said that, I don't think that this is confined to any faith: if you look hard enough you'll see bigoted people everywhere, probably where you least expect it.

[hidesunderthetable]

Suggests a cruel sport: bigot-baiting.

Who would we play it with?



No! I won't say Justin! OK, maybe just mention his name...

Seriously - bigots are bigots. The real challenges for 'people of prejudice' are other people. Being forced to look at others on an equal footing to your own is a very hard thing to do. Incredibly, for some people. So they take the easy way out, and label them - thus storing them out of the way (read: out of the group, and thus out of consideration) and making their lives a little easier.

It's a shame, but it seems to be deeply ingrained into our natures. Perhaps there's a \|/ to the /|\? (Or, every cloud has a silver lining, and vice-versa...)

- Jordan

Cruel, yes, and fun too. Ooops!

<...they ... label them>

Labelling people and things is an intrinsically human thing to do. It's part of the reason for my nickname. It's the identification of THEM and US that leads to problems, as we all seem to agree!

Chin up, Matholwch!

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

There are two kinds of people in the world:
1. those who put people into two categories
2. those who don't

I had to deal with one of "those people" at work today.

*Mean lady made me cry*

After I had gotten all of the astonishment and hurt I felt out of my system, I was able to see her as a person who needed compassion, not anger.
I wondered why this lady was persecuting me. I couldn't understand it. And over something I didn't do, but had been gossipped about doing.
So, like any human I cried. I cried and I hurt and I yelled for a minute when nobody was around.
Then I said a little prayer for her, because she was obviously needing. I wished I would have been more perceptive when she was reeming me out for nothing. Maybe if I would have let her know she was valued, perhaps she wouldn't have let loose with her anger at me? Or, even if she still did, I wouldn't have been so hurt.
Karen

I have been characterized as 'does not work well with others'.
I don't know why.
People talk silly stuff, you talk silly stuff back, somebody takes it seriously.

Me no understand.
People apparently are offended by me all the time.
Nobody seems to notice when I'm offended.

I have free-floating anxiety anyway. To have it actually attached to someone or a situation that I don't understand is very frightening.

Greetings Apostate - Looking through all the replies to your cri de whatever it seems to me that maybe the time has come for our culture to start on a comprehensive psychological survey of not only Xtianity, but all the orthodox religions. For instance Why do the senior priests dress up in funny frocks? Why are they so afeared of thought? Why are they so afeared of women? What precisely is the purpose of 'worship'? Why is god so sensitive that he wont allow us to call him rude names? - you can call me what you like, I dont go burning down cities in a fit of pique etc etc. And above all why do they not tell us of the great mass of Christian books (or scriptures) that we are not allowed to see? If for instance we are allowed to meet the gnostic Jesus, we find ourselves confronted by a rather pleasant guy, an active Jew with a girl friend who is his chief disciple. He was as sharp as a needle, with a powerful awareness of the eternal All, which he called Father in accordance with Jewish custom- - (ie he was dead psychic), and all the trappings of a left wing commie trouble maker who had no truck with churches or other organisations with power problems. His attitude was unaceptable to the Imperial power of the day. It is interesting that one of the earliest Christian sins was the use and abuse of power.
I am, I suppose, a pagan - but only because it gives me some pleasure when asked my religion on entering hospitals. it is very sad that no hospital chaplain has been prepared to approach me to find out just what I am. Priests hate discussion because their only argument comes from a book written not by themselves. So for us adult apostates, heretics wotever it is great fun tweaking the presumptuous pomposities - but your poor children - thats tough. All I can suggest is that you help them to rely upon themselves - learn to brazen it out so that they draw not mockery but curiosity - you know the sort of thing -
-" of course I am a druid - same as Harry Potter. Thousands of us are druids. Prince Charles wasnt allowed, so he had to stay a Christian - etc etc ".
As for yourself, if you 'come out' so to speak, and allow people to gently become aware of your holistic leanings, I think you may be surprised at the amount of friendly interest you arouse.
Incidentally Belief is not in my vocab - only Understanding.
I have suffered as a heretic - As a young priest in mediaeval France I was tortured and burned to death in 13th century. I have nursed an abiding contempt for the church ever since. But that is another story. Patrice

To all my friends and visitors .

Thanks for all the kind words. I am reading them each with care and will reply later once I have found words that sum up accurately my feelings.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

<'come out' ... and allow people to gently become aware of your holistic leanings, I think you may be surprised at the amount of friendly interest you arouse.>

I'm afraid you wouldn't be at all surprised at the uninformed tide of bigotry and barbarism that overwhelmed you and your family. Remember the Good Citizens who attacked the home of a paediatrician because they misunderstood her to be a paedophile. In the name of goodness, and of protecting your nearest and dearest, continue your quiet progress, and don't shout about your differences with the mainstream. The coward's way is the safest. People, considered as a mob, are far too dangerous to deal with, unless they are unarmed and you are securely inside a tank (the military sort, with turret and gun).

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

"A riot is an ugly thing...
and it's about time we had one!"

"Young Frankenstein"



Often conquered, never subdued...

Hi fred .

"and I've seen your piccy from the last meet and there is an unfortunate lack of horns"

Hmmm...very interesting. What meet was this? If it was anything to do with h2g2 you have the wrong fellow (unless I was astral travelling in my sleep again and they have a very special camera). I have yet to attend any meets (nobody wants to invite a boring old druid ).

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hi Patrice .

It seems we have a similar view of the probable 'historical' Jesus. A savant and a a teacher, a healer and great spirit. It was Paul who changed this kindly image into the redemptive sacrifice that is used to bludgeon people today from so many pulpits.

The term 'pagan' is becoming a bit overused unfortunately. As a generic term it is OK but only if seen as a generic term. It's like saying all Christians are the same when you have the 'Righteous Prophets of Doom' at one end of the spectrum and the 'NT Hippies' at the other. We pagans have our fruit loops too. What this means though is that we are easy targets for the uninformed media and their army of drones (sorry, Sun Readers).

Having seen at first hand the reaction of Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians, many of them neighbours and friends, to the setting up of a holistic new age treatment centre (you know, aromatherapy, reiki, shitasu, indian head massage, acupuncture and that sort of thing) I think I'll continue to protect my family with my silence. Within days they had burning excrement through the letter box, accompanied by evangelical leaflets. Next came the anonymous phone calls to Social Services accusing the women of the centre of 'satanic child abuse'. Then the Environmental Health were targeted to close them down and now its appeals against the planning permission (after all it replaced a 'vital' Beauty Salon).

Thanks for the advice Patrice but I hold my children's safety far above my freedom to practice my beliefs in public.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.