h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Apparently the lower levels of Hell, with the worst punishments, were reserved for the media, lawyers and the guy who invented aluminum siding. "

Good - let's add manufacturers of polytunnels.

Junior Justin, this is not your website! You have no control over who reads or comments on your threads unless they transgress the rules.

BTW how do you reconsile your lifestyle with Acts 2:44-45
44. And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.


alji

"Dream on....The choice is yours. As Jesus said, 'repent or perish.'"

dream on indeed...obviously it appeals to you to have a god who punishes people in this way. What a strange mind it is that either designs or relishes that degree of torture being visited on people who do not wish to make a choice freely. Who would wish to associate with such a depraved god?

"Matholwch"

You seem to be responding to my post, not to Math's. Not a good start.

"You are of an entirely different religion to me, and as such, you have no place lecturing Christians about their faith."

Ok, let's have an agreement then: you don't lecture me on where you think I shall go after death and what punishment you think I and those like merit, and I shan't lecture you. Deal?

"The thing I dislike the most is when these anti-Christian militants smugly declare their 'proof' that Christianity is wrong. And it is usually the same 'proof' that they all use and Christians have answered hundreds of times."

The thing I dislike the most is when these Christian militants smugly declare their 'proof' that anyone who does not think the same way as themselves is wrong. And it is usually the same 'proof' that they all use and the rest of us have answered hundreds of times.

"Interesting, of the quotes you provided only one said the naughty would go to Hell....

"He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVING, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who PRACTICE MAGIC ARTS, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Revelation 21:7-8"

Math, from memory you have no Greek. Most Christians who quote the bible have no Greek either, and have to rely on translations. Once you start reading the NT in Greek, life gets a lot more complicated than the translations would have us believe.

As you know, the problems with a lot of words used (especially in Revelations) is that they occur infrequently. Mostly, to try to get round circular references, or contexts which supply little clue (as with a lot of words in Revelations, for example), translators rely on the Septuagint, which was written over a few hundred years in a number of versions, much of which does not agree with the original Hebrew texts. However, be that as it may, what may we make of the word translated here as "those who practice magic arts", for example?

The actual word if "pharmakois" from which we derive the word "pharmacology" as it pertained to drugs. It also appears in Rev 9:21 and 18:23 (you can tell the writer of Revelations was fond of it!) and Galatians 5:20. Now, one might ask, why do the translators prefer 'magic' to 'drugs'? Interesting question, isn't it? perhaps the forms of magic that world was most familiar with was a shamanic one in which healing was practised through using a form of journeying with the help of drugs, as many shamans still do. Of course, as the Septuagint spanned so many centuries, it's impossible to tell if the word retained its original meaning throughout, or if it developed - or which meaning the two NT writers were intending.

"No understanding of free-will or the Fall."

but it isn't freewill is it, dearheart? If it was, then your god would let people free to make their own decisions. But you say that's precisely what he doesn't do - instead if people don't want anything to do with him he will torture them for all eternaity. Sounds more like the sort of mentality I'd expect from a suicide bomber or a sulky child than a decent god.

Matholwch

I honestly don't care what you think about God. The fact is, you are a sinner and deserve to go to Hell-just like a thief deserves to go to prison. Now, I am not taking a holier than thou stance because I am the same. But the Blood of Christ has washed my sins away and I have been saved-and it can happen to you to.

Now when you go to God, you can have a hissy-fit and say that no preacher was convincing but the fact is, you were told what you had to do to get into Heaven and you refused to do it. You refused to repent your sins. And furthermore, there are hundreds of books and websites out there that will prove the Bible-you just chose to be lazy. Now you can either do that and spend eternity in Hell (during which of course you will realise that you were in the wrong) or you can swallow your pride and admit that you are a sinner and go to Heaven and live in bliss forever.

The choice is yours. But remember, the liberal Christian version of an all loving, never-angry god is an idol. God IS love but God is also completely righteous-just like a Judge in court but love the person on trial but has to sentence them for their crimes.

Once again, it is up to you. But I know what one you should choose and I only pray you’ll choose it before it is too late.

Hello, GSD. I see you have largely ignored all my points. No matter. That merely confirms my expectations of you.

Onward.

"You have no business coming to my website and lecturing born again Christians on what they ought to believe."

Newsflash, boy. This is not your website.

This website was setup by and continues in tribute to one of the most vocal, articulate and convinced atheists this country ever produced. And if it's anyone's, it's OURS - the many, many intelligent and articulate and multi-faithed users of it who were all here before you, and understand enough about it to know how hilarious your use of the phrase "my website" is in this context.

"An unsaved man like yourself may as well read Kubla Khan in ancient Sanskrit as read the Bible."

I do hope your daddy didn't pay very much for your vaunted private education, because however much it was, it was apparently wasted. "Kubla Khan", as any fule kno, is an unfinished poem fragment written in 1797, or possibly 1798, by the great ENGLISH genius Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Your confusion of it with any ancient text merely demonstrates your wonderfully entertaining ignorance.

Do, please continue. It is most amusing.



One additional thing - despite my requests, and despite your categorical pronouncements, you have failed, utterly, to supply the name of even ONE reputable scientist who is a young earth creationist. Remember, you said that you have EVIDENCE that around 20% of scientists hold that belief.

I note with interest that you harbour ambitions to be a Cabinet Minister. Leaving aside for a moment the inherent comedy of this idea, I would like to ask the following question:

Can you name ONE, single sitting Member of Parliament, of ANY party, who is a young-earth creationist?

And if not, may I suggest you consider the reason why not?

Regards

SoRB

Hi GrandSam

I am not offended at all, not even a tad . This is freedom of speech in action.

As has been said though this is not your website, it is your page on a public discussion forum and anything written here is in the public domain. I am not lecturing you, I am challenging you, engaging you in debate about your publically proclaimed beliefs. If you don't want to be challenged, or feel inadequate to the task of explaining your belief, the door is over there. I, for one, would be very sad to see you go.

Are you saying then that the unsaved cannot understand the Bible, the Word of God? If this is so then they cannot become saved through that Word? You talk yourself in circles my friend.

If your God is so keen to extend His mercy to us all, to allow all of us to rise above sin through salvation, why then would he not open all our eyes? Or are we in that smug little ghetto called The Elect? Sounds like Calvinism is creeping in here.....

You are right on one thing - I am not in service to Jehovah. However, I am also not in service to His enemy either. I am a druid priest of Brigidh, a religion far older and deeper rooted than the middle-eastern death cult you subscribe to.

Unlike your religion my path does not demand slavish worship and obedience. It asks me to walk in the light, to treat all with respect, to heal the wounded of heart and spirit, and to defend the weak. I am not instructed to stone those who commit adultery or other crimes of love, no matter how much I personally disapprove of such actions.

Your loving God will happily cast me and all virtuous pagans into eternal hellfire not because we are evil-doers but because we do not bend our knee to Him. The hallmark of true tyranny.

This does not sound like the Jesus so carefully described in Matthew, but the perversion of Christianity by Paul and Peter. Two xenophobic, mysogynistic and hateful men.

I do know many good christians who take their lead from Matthew and to whom the other gospels and later scriptures are an anathema. I assume you would have them cast into the Lake of Fire as well?

Perhaps you should re-read Matthew and consider what Jesus would have liked you to do with your life, other than spreading hate across the net.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\

Hi Good News

You obviously do care what I think of God to spend so much time talking to me and I do appreciate it.

I would find it interesting for you to list the sins of which you believe me guilty, and list the relevant passages of the Law. I will then do the same for you. We could play that game all night.

Again you have deliberately ignored the fact that I was giving an example of a man who had not heard the Word of God. I am Apostate and accept any consequences that come from that stance, but what of the innocent - you have not yet shown that these will receive anything less than the full punishment?

I do not need hundreds of books on the Bible or any websites - I have a full copy by the computer, well thumbed and with a broken spine.

I have no pride. One of the things that druidry teaches you is a full and unrestricted sense of perspective. I am well aware of my failings and all the things I have done wrong. But unlike you, who seems to revel in the fact that your God has forgiven you I work at restitution.

It is part of my faith that you cannot expect forgiveness, you must work for it, put things right, you are personally responsible for your mistakes, you cannot ask anyone, not even a deity to take that from you.

To expect a deity to give you a get-out-of-responsibility-free card is an act of cowardice. It is running away from your obligations to those you have wronged. This is another reason I am not Christian.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

'Can you name ONE, single sitting Member of Parliament, of ANY party, who is a young-earth creationist?'

Ian Paisley of DUP is a YEC I believe. And he is an MP as well as a Presbyterian Minister. Any other questions?

"Ian Paisley of DUP is a YEC I believe."

Thank you, even though you are replying on behalf of the person to whom the question was addressed rather than allowing him to speak for himself. Never mind, I'm sure he's used to that.

I have only further supplemental question, out of curiosity. Can you name *either* any Conservative MP, or any MP representing a constituency in mainland Britain, who is a YEC?

Meanwhile, I have nothing further until after I have tested the truth of your claim. Watch this space.

SoRB.

Well, you have to admit that legislators usually don't keep up with the latest breaking "science", so they just probably don't know how well embraced YEC is by "scientists". They'll come around...

‘You obviously do care what I think of God to spend so much time talking to me and I do appreciate it.’

You don’t need to thank me. I’m only trying to save you from a fate worse than death. If I was walking down the street and saw the top of a house burning but saw the family in the living room unaware of the fire, I would try to rescue them. In the same way, I can see that you are on your way to Hell without realizing it and I want to try and rescue you. You might think I am being intolerant and nasty but I am simply trying to help you:

‘For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.’ 1 Corinthians 1:18-19

'I would find it interesting for you to list the sins of which you believe me guilty, and list the relevant passages of the Law.'

Read the Ten Commandments. I would not be surprised if you have broken them all (remembering that Jesus said lust was equal to adultery and hate-filled anger was equal to murder).

'I will then do the same for you. We could play that game all night.'

No need. I fully admit that I have broken most of them. That is how I am a sinner and deserve Hell. But I have been saved-Jesus took my punishment on the cross. All I had to do is admit I was a sinner and accept the gift that Jesus offers and then ask Him into my heart-you can do the same and I pray that you will.


'Again you have deliberately ignored the fact that I was giving an example of a man who had not heard the Word of God.'

That does not affect you. But I did not ignore that. I gave Acts 10 as an example. The centurion was a devout man and God was pleased with him even though he had never heard about Jesus Christ. He was devout in his ignorance-because He accepted the general revelation of God from His creation-and that is that God exists. If a man in Africa does that and dies without hearing about Jesus, the same might happen to him. However, if it does not, and He goes to Hell, it is because of His sins. God owes Him nothing. Now I have answered that question for at least the third time so change the tune.

‘I am Apostate and accept any consequences that come from that stance’

Be it on your own head. But it seems arrogant and stupid to believe in the Christian God but refuse to repent. But you will be put in your place one day and all your bravery will melt away.

‘I do not need hundreds of books on the Bible or any websites - I have a full copy by the computer, well thumbed and with a broken spine.’

That is good. But you will not be able to fully understand without the Holy Spirit. Besides, apologetics are good for showing that the Bible can be trusted.


‘To expect a deity to give you a get-out-of-responsibility-free card is an act of cowardice.’

If He did not do that, every single person on the planet would burn in Hell one day. Besides, God endured torture and suffering beyond what you can imagine-just to save your soul. And you can cowardice?! I suspect you would not do that for a wicked man who you know deserves to die.

Now I’ll be praying for you and I can only hope that you will one day see the Truth.

God Bless

'Can you name *either* any Conservative MP, or any MP representing a constituency in mainland Britain, who is a YEC?'

That is not the question you asked originally and when I managed to answer it, you have narrowed the goal posts. You asked for a YEC MP and I gave you one. As for an MP in Britian, I am not too sure. Although Tony Blair is sympathetic to them. I would not be suprised if Ruth Kelly or Ann Widdecombe were Creationists. However, that does not matter. I gave you at least one definite Creationist MP. In the Scottish Highlands, OCV seem to do very well so Scotland will probably have a Creationist MSP soon (although for all the good the Scottish Parliament seems to do, that is not much to hope for).

Good_News:

I'm confused. In post 112 you said "Any other questions?".

I asked one other question.

To which you responded:

"That is not the question you asked originally".

Well, duh. It kind of falls under the definition of "other questions". And you don't appear to have a definitive answer, not, I have to say, to my great surprise.

I am somewhat surprised you claim Tony Blair is "sympathetic" to them. I presume you allude to his equivocal support for the curriculum at Emmanuel College, Gateshead, in the teeth of vocal opposition from many scientists and churchmen A734302.

Realistically, any rational student of politics would recognise that he is actually "sympathetic" to a man with vast quantities of cash who is prepared to fund schools. If you choose to interpret his acquiescence to their rejection of the national curriculum as sympathy for YEC ideas, well, fine. Whatever.

In the meantime, as I said, until I have had the chance to test your claim that "Dr." Paisley is indeed a YEC, I have nothing further.

Regards

SoRB.

'In post 112 you said "Any other questions?".

I asked one other question.'


Oh yes.... So I did. Sorry about that. I forgot I said that!

As for Ian Paisley, he believes that the King James Bible is the infallible Word of God and is a fundamentalist. He also has an honoury degree from Bob Jones University (a uni that teaches Creationism). Plus I am sure I have heard him defend a literal Genesis.

<>

Surely if god created "Him" (being the Roman guy), or anyone else for that matter, he does owe him, unless he is an evil psychopath. If I gave birth to a child (for lack of a better analogy) and I abandoned it to fend for itself, when it grows up to be a sinning drug user, at BEST I have been negligent and cruel. If I then take it upon myself to torture the child for eternity for not choosing to become a nun instead, I am, by any definition of the word, EVIL. Or maybe, as seems more fitting to your understanding of "God", I should start torturing the baby as soon as it's born, after all, fictional characters thousands of years ago once ate an apple. Do you not see the stupidity of what you are saying?

Do you see nothing wrong with the premise that a "loving" god would deliberately *create* people, and being the three omnis, not only allow, but encourage or even control said people's sin, and then send them to hell for all eternity for it?

I know people have said this before but I don't think you or Sam have answered.

Isn't it inherent that if god DID create people, and he IS omnicient and omnipotent, and he DOES send people to hell for excercising their own (god given) sense of free-will, then he CAN'T be good? You can't claim the first part is all true but deny that the figure you are describing is evil.

Well, I know you will, but it doesn't seem logical to me.

HAHAHAHA SoRB Good News answered your questioned and you didn't like it did you?!?!?


I also believe Peter Robinson MP, Gregory Campbell MP, Jeffrey Donaldson MP, Iris Robinson MP and Nigel Dodds MP are YECs. So that makes five!

Care to shift the goalposts again?