h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

One point - a work collegue who is well versed in the English language (UK English for Microsofters) claims that the person who first isolated Alluminium gave it the pronounciation our USA cousins use to this day, it is the British who decided to go against the "invertors" wishes.

I have just spent half an hour trying to confirm this on the Web without success so it could be an urban myth propogated by the dam yanks

BTW Welcome back Sue, Modem working?

C Hawke

Not definitive proof, but at least someone else agrees with you - look at Post 1800 (Yes, you saw right : 1800!!) here http://www.h2g2.com/F19585?thread=46483&post=702338

Ah that forum - I have something, somewhere deep within that one - one of the threads that refuses to die, but I have a name som reseach continues.

C Hawke

Copy of message posted to other forum;

More research has found this

http://www.berndorf.at/story/kap51.htm

Anyone read German? TC can you translate for us?

C Hawke

Don't worry found english version

http://www.berndorf.at/story/kap_e51.htm

CH

Still doesn't anser question but indicates I am on the right track

How anyone can pronounce Aluminium Al-um-in-um is beside me especially in a country where they pride themselves in being phonetic.

I do love our American cousins trying to Pronounce some of our English palce names

Spelling - followed by correct pronounciation

Leominster - Lem-ster
Kilkaldy- Ker-cod-y
Llangollen - Glan-goglen
Dunlaoghaire - Done-leary

We don't try to pronounce aluminium. We have no such word. The word for the light, shiny, flexible metal is "aluminum." We pronounce it the way it is spelled.

As for the weird place names in England, I think most of them can be blamed on those Cilly Celts...

Was that Kelt or Selt.

And be careful as I ma one marrying the other type.

As an Irishman (among other things, of course... ahh, the joys of being American), I can definitely say it's Kelt. To pronounce it otherwise would forever ban me from the goodness of Guiness...

One only has to look to TVR for true, pure, motoring beauty. Granted, Chevrolet gave us some nice numbers, but they also collaborated in giving us those crappy *spits the word* 'trucks'. Pah!

I still cannot find any proof that the original speeling laked the final I. But if it does then....

CH

Aluminium is a better spelling than Aluminum because it fits into the naming used for many other metals on the Periodic Table, so in the interests of consistancy, the English way is better.

I had some amusement when a Belgian friend of mine was trying to work out how to pronounce Loughborough... Bicester can also cause problems for people.

And don't even mention Machynlleth (did I spell that right? It's always been a problem for me too) or Aberystwyth - the English have horrendous problems with Welsh placenames.

Then, of course, there are all the Scottish and Irish place names that originate in Gaelic (or Gallic, if you're Scottish). Head for the Scottish Highlands or the Hebrides, never mind Ireland itself, and you'll find yourself surrounded by them.

Still, at least we can read the place names and road names. Richard and I visited the Khan-al-Khalili in Cairo a couple of months ago (it's the bazaar area). We had a map, but still didn't know exactly where we were because the map gave road names in English and all the street signs were in Arabic!

Personally I think it is cheap and pointless having a pop at different pronunciations - It all adds to the variety of life, especially when there are so many other things to have a pop at the yanks about;

late in 2 world wars, failed in South East Asia, victourious over world super power Grenada, can't get the units right in space probes, 13% of american women don't know if they wear their tights over or under their knickers (Bryson 1998), the insistance that you need semi-automatic rifles with teflon coated bullets to hunt animals with, the fact they would prefer to buy a car with 12 cup holders as opposed to latest safty feature......the list goes on,

but hey I'm not diffending the UK with its yob culture, the belief that downing 14 pints makes a good political leader, the belief that football(soccer) is a really interesting game that can last 2 hours and end scoreless, the fact that we spent half a billion sterling on a tent in London, our sycophantic news reporting of all US news, our xenophopia to european neighbours, including those we fought wars to protect, our inability to see through blantent lies, our mob culture that hounds dedicated paedotricians (spelling?) out of their home instead of paedophiles (and ignoring the drug dealers next door)...oh I could rant like this for ages.....

C Hawke

I'm English and, while not an Americo-phile, I'm also not a 'Yank-basher' either. I don't care if they say 'aluminum' instead of 'aluminium'. I don't care who's right. Our countries have had different influences on our language over the past 200+ years, so our language is bound to have diverged somewhat. Language is a living thing. It evolves and grows. The only languages that don't are ones like Latin or Ancient Egyptian, and they're described as 'dead languages', which kind of proves my point.

What really bugs me with my compatriots is the insistence of some of them (Richard included) that British English is 'right' and American English is 'wrong', purely because it's not the way we speak, or because they use words and phrases that aren't exactly grammatically correct. OK, so 'different than' makes me wince but, unlike some people, I don't get uptight if an American says 'Do you have...?' rather than 'Have you got...?' (Actually, Richard agrees with me on this one!) In fact, if you read a book on 'Usage and Abusage', of which I have two, the Americans have got it right. The British use a colloquialism that has become acceptable through use. So there!

I could rant on for hours on this topic, so I'll close with a few well-chosen *French* words. VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!

(PS I wouldn't want the Americans back, even if they wanted to re-join us! It's much more fun with them over there and us over here. If we did join up again, somebody's culture would suffer along the way. I'm not sure whose, though!)

No that's not the point. The point is that British English must be right because we speak it in England. The fact that Americans call their language English is what bugs me. It shouldn't be called English, even though it is indeed very similar.

And yes, Britain has lots of problems, but C Hawke, "we" didn't spend half a billion quid on a silly tent, the government did and told us repeatedly that it's a wonderful idea. Do you ever recall them proposing it to see if it was actually a good idea or not? They could at least have made it into a swimming pool/ice rink complex...

*floating in, in her usual vague, elf-like manner*

My oh my what discussions!

Being neither British nor American, here's a general, common and very sweeping opinion (not necessarily true, but we all have our prejudices, haven't we?):

British - rather eccentric (in England, everybody is fruits - and nuts), conservative and stiff upper lipped...

Americans - best/worst at anything - every time we see or read about or hear of something horrendously mind-boggling, we shake our heads and say 'typically American'...

...and, before you start throwing s at me, let me just mention that I'm Swedish (wow, are there prejudices about us!)

A couple of points I would like to make....

I'm a Brit - acually I should say I'm English coz I can't pronounce Welsh or Scottish place names to save my life.

I didn't write that reply - just dragged it kicking and screaming from another message board where this has become a 'hot' topic.

MHO is vive la difference too - a Yorkshireman and a Londoner will make exactly the same word sound completly different - who's to say which is right or wrong?

And just to stick another spanner in the works - I thought it has been shown that American pronounication is closer to the root language and it's British English that has changed the most?

Oh I missed this - 5 weeks with no modem is a looonnngggg time

It's nice to know somebody agrees with me.

'British' English is not correct because we speak it over here. OK, so it's the language that 'American' English is derived from, but why should they call it something different purely because the languages have diverged over 200+ years? I'm with Sue. If you take English as it was in 1776 and compare it with British English and American English, both can be shown to have diverged. I don't know about British English having diverged the most, but who's to say our divergence is 'right' while the American divergence is 'wrong'. As I said before, different influences led to differences in the language. There is no right or wrong. I don't always like the way Americans use English, but I'll defend to the death their right to use it as *they* wish, not as some hide-bound, pedantic, stick-in-the-mud Englishman says they should!