h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No, I disagree. They are the refuge for far right voters who considered the BNP too common. (Although in fact the BNP drew a lot of their support from the leafy suburbs.)

I'll agree that they are fickle. They moved towards the mainstream when it was important to distance themselves from extremism. But they represent the 'Bah! I'll show 'em' tendency. They cannot be trusted not to occupy the far right vacuum.

Although, of course, it depends what you mean by 'far'. Hasn't the whole political hegemony taken a skip to the right?

To my mind UKIP are proof the simple left-right dichotomy simply doesn't work. UKIP are opposed to EU membership but that isn't a right-wing issue and they're opposed to immigration but so are the mainstream parties. Whilst mostly a single-issue party take out the EU stuff and they most closely resemble the right wing of the Lib Dems or even the SNP.

Although we call parties like the BNP and FN far right, they're actually not - nationalism doesn't fit easily on to the political spectrum and both parties have managed to take more votes from Labour/Socialists than Tories/UMP. The BNP heartlands are the deprived Pennine mill-towns which used to be rock solid Labour and, generally, the BNP aren't taking votes from the Tories.

>(but it is increasing).<

Is it? I see no evidence of that. How so?

@HI:

I wouldn't want to get caught up in terminology. No, of course politics isn't one-dimensional. But forgive me if I still count UKIP and the FN and the PVV and the Sweden Democrats...etc. as members of The Worrying Tendency.

All fun and games until someone loses an eye.

I hope I'd be allowed to finish my degree, but otherwise, so long, it's been good to know you. I kind of like it over here, but there are other interesting countries that would be easier to work in.

Yes. In a number of ways: our working conditions are the joke of western Europe.

Since my other country is Russia it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to me. I already have to muck about with visa's and so on and I am so so bored of that. Next time I have the opportunity to expand my citizenship i am so taking it.

Failing that, of course, it would be just my luck that Russia would join the EU jut as the UK leaves.

Feel free to stay, Mal. The smarter amongst us will do all we can to stop it being an issue.

Meh. It's only really the Poles and the gypsies and those with more attractive skin tones they're bothered about anyway.

Not really. They have *all* sorts of nonsense about immigrants. For instance, jobs in the city of London should go to Londoners and not those from outside London.

(Another interesting one is the abolition of "all politically correct services". Whatever the feck they are...)

I assumed they meant social workers.

Could be them. Could be translators. Could be anything!

UKIP were once described as "the BNP in blazers", something that Farage admitted was the only barb that really hit home and was difficult to shake off. They're Little Englanders at heart, seemingly unaware that it isn't 1930 any more.

The BNP aren't Far Right either - their economic policies are damn near Communist. In truth, the BNP are just socialist racists with a healthy dose of nationalism and jingoism thrown in. The old time far right has moved and and now resides in parties like the English Democrats.

As for left/right in general, meh, we're all liberal materialists these days

Orcus, I think it was me that said UKIP support is increasing?

how can you not see that a party that didn't exist before, and now has control of one council, councellors in several towns (i have no idea how many or which because it's what they said on the radio) and an MEP (More than one?) isn't increasing it's base.

The head honcho (sorry, can't remember his name) said that they started out as more-or-less a single issue campaigner have shown, through their control of one town council, that yes, actually they can run things. And now they are making (or have made?) their manifesto with an eye to attracting more support.

It's how parties (who don't splinter from other parties, I'd guess) start, or not?

<<Although, of course, it depends what you mean by 'far'. Hasn't the whole political hegemony taken a skip to the right?

Indeed, and the worst thing is when people perceive it as "normal".

or even "necessary"

wild cuts in health, education, social services and investigation, and on the other hand increasing of mass media laws that make passive resistence and demostrations crimes. All that is what is going on here.

I call that fascism.

About worker´s rights, never mind being in or out the EU, soon we all be like Chinessed workers. It´s the tendency in Europe.

Sorry, forgot a word:

and on the other hand increasing of mass media
CONTROL and laws that make passive resistence and demostrations crimes. All that is what is going on here.

This expat would certainly be in a difficult place without the free movement of labour. I think I could probably qualify for French citizenship (French wife) but it would be a faff.

sprout

>how can you not see that a party that didn't exist before, and now has control of one council, councellors in several towns (i have no idea how many or which because it's what they said on the radio) and an MEP (More than one?) isn't increasing it's base.<

Same thing as the BNP a couple of years back. Everyone though their influence was on the rise - I think they had a few councilors all over the place. Lots of publicity, they even got their leader onto Question time.
The next general election practically wiped them out when people were voting for the real power and not indulging in protest votes. I'll be amazed if that doesn't happen to the UKIP too though.

*However* - I'll stress it again - electoral success is not the whole deal. These parties are effective lobby groups for unsavoury policies.

Indeed. And they have a record of influencing more mainstream parties, who tend to adopt parts of their policy for fear of being outflanked...

"Politicians Matching Policies With The Wishes Of The Electorate Shocker"