h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Does being marketed at white people make a difference?

No. That want my point. It was merely dont kid yourself that its separate from a larger whole. The whole Rock/Pop binary is pish.


(The fact that as a matter of personal aesthetics I think that - as a general rule and on the whole - Pop is better the more faithful it remains to its African-American origins is an entirely separate issue. )

Rock became meaningless at the exact moment when Bon Scott died.

B

"Rock is really a sub-genre of guitar-based Pop"

You're standing on shaky ground [ http://www.elsewhere.co.nz/music/3369/renee-geyer-the-definitive-collection-1973-1998-mushroom/ ] there, Edward.

I don't know who said it first, but:

"all of our popular music comes from blues. I don’t think a lot of young people realize that. Even rock ‘n roll in the 50s was just blues sped up." http://www.americanbluesscene.com/2011/06/interview-with-hamilton-loomis-out-on-the-back-porch/

Now, tell us you were joking.

Will it help, then, if I change the wording from Pop to Thing? Its really the silly, false binary that Im railing against. As far as Im concerned theyre all subsets of the same stream of musical tradition which sprang forth from, as you say, Yer Blues. Specifically at the moment when Robert Johnson met the at the crossroads. Even my own, beloved Reggae is only ~Rhythm and Blues played backwards.~

When someone says I Like Rock, all theyre really saying is that they prefer one genre of (Thing) to the others. Thats all. Nothing else. Although, in my opinion, if they say that they *only* like that genre and that all the other rich possibilities of (Thing) are inane rubbish...then they need to take their fingers out of their ears. And maybe put away their Queens Greatest Hits for a couple of minutes.


Tony ~Anthony H~ Wilson spoke before he died of the famous Manchester Sex Pistols gig when everyone was there who would later go on to shape the future of (Thing). (The gig was seemingly held in a going by the number who *claim* to have been present):

~It all started when Robert Johnson met the at the crossroads and sold him his soul, and when you saw Johnny Rotten up on the stage that night, you thought...actually...it was a pretty good deal.~

Am I allowed to claim Punk Rock for Pop? Perhaps not. But whatever kind of beast it was it was rather different from (to pick random examples) Yes or Bon Jovi. Or Queen.

So why categorise? Why (famous pop quote) pin a butterfly on a wheel?

Two favourites for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jN5vqEyV7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t1_ETuWIbE

I've just found this site: http://www.elsewhere.co.nz/blues/

Plenty of complete tracks to listen to - and comments you might enjoy, such as:

"It's hard to pinpoint exactly when Eric Clapton -- once called "God" by his devotees -- ceased to be relevant. Certainly he still plays to huge audiences and his guitar playing remains technically undiminished.

But his albums are --with rare exceptions -- anodyne, his playing often bloodless and despite genuine efforts to find inspiration (working with BB King, his dreary Robert Johnson tribute illustrating how far removed he was from his muse, an album with JJ Cale) he is firmly on the margins of interest: respected, revered even, but not relevant."

Well, I'm off to see John Mellencamp on Saturday. His version of Rock isn't meaningless.

This might be meaningless, but it's good fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lbZpFBGq1k


*hides behind the potted palm*

Now remember...I havent specifically slagged off Rock (apart from Queen). Although admittedly nobody has got me started on the horrors of Yes yet.

My only argument has been...admit it...there are only two kinds of music: Country and Western. NO!!! I meant good music and bad music. Both kinds can be found in the various nooks of the great art kicked off by African-Americans in the early years of the 20thC. (earlier, actually. if Malian griots arent playing The Blues, then what the hell else is it?)

OK - we have different definitions of what constitutes Good and Bad, and to my mind some of them are quite potty - but personally, I dont think Ive yet written off an entire sub-genre. If pressed I might even admit to liking Robert Wyatt (a lot!) whos filed under Prog. King Crimson...nnnnn...a bit self indulgent but I can see the point. But not Yes, obviously.

Clapton:

I once had a RL conversation with a well-known poet and childrens author ( i wonder who that could be?) about him. Hed seen Cream live and was of the opinion that the world is split between those who worship Clapton and those who can see right through him. It was his acid test for whether he could trust someones musical judgement. (I passed ) I guess I can see his technical competence (although I dont think thats a prerequisite for music). Ive heard him talk knowledgeably about Robert Johnson et al (He says he has no idea how Johnson did the things he did on Terraplane Blues) - but people make out that hes The Real Deal, that you can hear The Blues pour out of him. I simply dont get that.

What's the similarity between Eric Clapton and coffee?

They both suck without cream...

Also with.

Cream were self-indulgent, up their erse drivel. Look at old footage of them. People were meant to stand around as though they were listening to Serious Music. Heaven forfend that anyone should tap a foot.

What they needed to learn is that Less can be More. Yer Blues has a structure for a reason. The random bashing of percussion is DULL!!!!!

"This might be meaningless, but it's good fun:" You had me worried for a moment... but good fun it is!


Ed, I first heard of Son House through his influence on one of my favourite groups of the 60s/70s, Canned Heat:
Turpentine Moan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCMpZ8dl1GY

And don't for-get to boogie!

Oh, I have an extensive collection of all the old Blues guys.

Changing tack slightly (cant post link - laptop untethered - no YouTube access from server) everybody RunDontWalk and check out Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

What a treasure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNq8DejQRN8

"People were meant to stand around as though they were listening to Serious Music."

That was kind of the point though... at that time going to a gig to *listen to the band* rather than because you wanted to dance was actually pretty radical. That's why The Pink Floyd always booked concert halls rather than dance halls.

Oh, I fully understand all that. But it was very much missing the point, surely. They were probably the younger siblings of the people who took Dylan seriously.

It wasnt *just* that people werent dancing. it was also, as I say, Less Is More. You get that in Commercial Pop, too: all those X-Factor wannabees who think they have to show that theyre Emoting by making their voices go up and down randomly. How different is that to Ginger Baker making random drum noises? Interminably.

The Pros arent always so hot, either. Listen to Whitney Houstons overuse of coloratura and arpeggios and whatever. Odd. She was taught to sing by her Auntie Dionne (Warwick). But Dionne Warwick keeps it simple and reigns it in: Just Sing The Notes.

(Or Ella Fitzgerald: often at her best when you know that she *can* scat but is choosing not to right now)

That came out wrong about Ella:

~A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipes but doesnt~

I meant that sometimes you can hear that shes on the verge of scatting and could go that way if it were artistically appropriate.

Rock music still has a meaning. It means the wrestler is about to exit from backstage and head for the ring.

"The WWE, the only place that rock music still gets cheered".
Quote: (ironically) Dwane 'The Rock' Johnson.