h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just an FYI to Mankoid's Flipper. As you noticed, you can use swear words at h2g2. However, people generally don't like it. You will find your views more respected in general if you refrain from the temptation.

To the morality guy, you should read up on Rosseau´s thing about the Society Contract. That´s why we have morality, except it´s gotten screwed up in some cases, for example by religion.

Social contract? Rousseau was building on earlier work by Locke, who was really expanding an offhand comment by Hobbes. None of this came about until the late 1600's. I'm fairly sure we had morality a bit before that, what do you think?

Basically, morality is what allows humans to coexist, rather than kill each other. We have to cooperate as a species, or else we'd never achieve great things like an automobile and a hamburger, which, when combined, produce the miracle of the Drive-Thru. It's a set of rules that we create ourselves, and we amend them all the time. We inflict governments upon ourselves to enforce these rules. Then, those governments turn around and violate the rules and pursue wholesale slaughter. It's a great system, is it not?

To be honest, I can´t remember which philosopher said it. But don´t tell any one I meant that morality is basically a "society contract" that has been created by evolution. No tribe would survive for long if they didn´t have a "thou shalt not kill"-policy. That´s why we humans and all the animals have it. But really, to me morality seems a big mystery still.

Open question to anyone: What do you base your morality on? How do you define what's moral?

I gotta admit, I haven't reflected too much on the why's of my actions. Unfortunatly. I have always tried to act in a way that is acceptable (or even commendable) for the society in wich I live. I guess I've been doing this for two reasons:
- My mom and dad were the kind of people who belived in a loose upbringing for me and my brother. We didn't have many rules, but whenever we did something other kids would be punished for, we just got the impression our parents were terribly disappointed. OTH, when we were good, our parents shone of pride.
- Being an atheist (coming from an agnostic home) in a fairly christian social enviroment, I felt I had to be "better" somehow, that the christians. If nothing else, than to show that I didn't need no god to be good and happy at the same time.

Now, I feel I should act in a suitable manner, following the social norms of the society I live in, simply because a stable society is for the benefit of all. Anti-social behavior degenerates our world, and it is already in a sad state.

More than one philosopher has phrased good reasons to act nice. Unfortunatly I can't remember a single one right now... Anybody?

Aren't you multidimensional?

Isn't it difficult to exist in one dimension?

Thanks Colonel,but the definition does not help very much does it?
What is the smallest social unit that can legitimately decide a moral position? What if that moral position contradicts that of a larger social unit or an adjacent social unit? If the answer is that it is up to the individual to decide which moral positions to accept, then we will always be immoral to somebody? I am beginning to think (slow I know, but I get there eventually)that the concept of morality is totally useless.

I take back the hug Percy, until further...

If morality is useless, and people are free to act however their instincts tell them, wouldn't society devolve? Would we have Coca Cola or Coffee if morality had not built a stable platform upon which people could do business, develop new products and ideas and generally take things easy?
[Those were rethorical questions. The answer is "no"]
I think we most certanly will be concidered immoral to some. Of course we will. That's culture. What is right one place is wrong the next place. Sometimes it's understandable (Hindu's don't eat cow, killing cow would ruin the indian foodsupply. Norwegians eat cow, not eating cow would seriously damage the norwegian foodsupply) other times it's based on religion (not the other way around) and then it's often plain stupid (killing people that don't marry the righ person is a silly thing morale has given some people). Either way, it serves some purpose. Our responsability is to make it serve the right purpose (stability and prosperety for everyone) the right way (open for discussion)

By the time I post this message, I'm guessing sever people have already given better replies, but I don't care. I like to hear my own voice. Or keyboard-clicks.

> "More than one philosopher has phrased good reasons to act nice. Unfortunatly I can't remember a single one right now... Anybody?"

I did a course in Ethics as part of the start of my degree - presumably to dissuade the hacker elements of Computer Scientists...

Anyway - as far as I remember...

-> Authoritarian Morality - "Daddy says brush your teeth, so brushing teeth is good."
-> Intuitionist Morality - "It's blatantly obvious to me that contributing to h2g2 is good."
-> Egoistic Morality - "It's in my self-interest to rob a bank, so robbing banks is good."
-> Ethical Egoism - "It's in my self-interest to be nice to people, so being nice is good."
-> Communitarian Morality - "Let's all get together in a knitting circle and talk about whether giving money to beggars is good."
-> Consequentialist Morality - "the aim of life is to maximise total happiness of everyone in the world. Orgies increase total happiness. Therefore Orgies are good."
-> Logical Morality - "Kant said 'act only on those maxims which you can will to become universal', and I'm going to pretend I know what that means so I can act smug"
-> Other - EG: Life is meaningless, but acting in a 'good' way is aesthetically pleasing, so I shall do it.

All of these theories have large gaping holes in them, and all of them have situations where they seem to encourage behaviour that can be seen as immoral.

Personally, I go for a mix of aesthetics and ethical egoism, but without any great devoutness...

you know what I meant, spebchob...

Lucinda: Yes. 'Nuff said.

I read God's dead. that true?

I noticed you put a smiley on your reply - I'm not sure how to do that, but if I figure it out, what's the etiquette - is there a smiley dictionary? I suppose I could search for the information, but it's easier to ask somebody intelligent, charming and witty, don't you think?

Trying to find a morality 'type' which applies to me, ending up thinking too much and hurting my brain I guess Ethical Egoism and Other come the closest, but I'm good for my peace of my mind than anybody else's, what do you call that?? I base my morals on not deliberately doing stuff to upset others, you also get more respect for being what is socially considered as 'good' which always helps. This doesn't mean you should restrict your personality and urges, my theory I guess is 'do what you want to have fun, but bear in mind the feelings of other people'? Brain's running riot now on what's considered acceptable and where you draw the line on how many people you'll upset by doing as you please and I'm only confusing myself further!!

No.

A word was missing.

It should have read, "God's dead boring."

Oh, well that too, but I was optimistic about religion being abolished when I read he was dead. Well, if he's not, then never mind I guess.

I don't mind religions that don't impose their will on others - unfortunately, too many do, and the tolerant are forced to tolerate the intolerant, on the magic grounds of respecting someone else's religion. Nobody respects the atheist or agnostic - they haven't got God on their side.

not sure why you're asking me then...

: - )

with no spaces.
That and the rest are in the "Don't Panic" pages...

I cannot remember the source of this quote, but it is on H2G2 somewhere.
There are only two rules for living.
1.Do whatever you like.
2.Accept the consequences.
All the various forms of ethical approach are no more than selecting different kinds of consequence on which to base decisions. In real life, depending upon that airy concept we call personality, we use a variety and combination of consequential analyses to 'choose' our actions. Or sometimes we just respond. I am not against 'morality'. I just think that it is a rather fuzzy and unhelpful word.