h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It's as if boxing were designed to be brutal.
In boxing you can only really finish a fight by a knockout blow to the head, or otherwise wait for a points decision based on continual blows to the head over 12 or so rounds. But the BBC are happy to broadcast boxing.

MMA (mixed martial arts) combines elements of boxing, judo and other forms of fighting, so fights can be finished by submission, so avoiding the damage caused by prolonged pounding of the brain. Not only is it safer than boxing, it's also a more effective all-round fighting style.

A judo choke or armlock ends a fight without causing damage, as we can see from this clip from Saturday night:
http://www.mmaroot.com/fedor-emelia...tim-sylvia-affliction-banned-video/

The best fighter in the world at the moment is Ukrainian/Russian Fedor Emelianenko, (a judo bronze-medalist in Russia national competition)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j6oyrL7BYgw

you don't seriously believe mma is a legit sport do you? it is no more legit than pro wrestling.

and imho pro boxing stopped being legit at least 20 years ago. but at least olympic boxing is still a sport, even if not an especially worthy one.

Please explain what you mean by 'legit sport' and why you consider MMA not to be one.

As for being an olympic sport, MMA is a relatively recent sport.
It took judo until 1964 to be included in the olympics.

In some ways, MMA has a better case to be included in the olympics than most sports that are there, as it has much in common with the ancient Greek art of pankration.

I don't think the question is why isn't MMA on the bbc, but why boxing is.

That youtube clip is not longer on youtube. Maybe the banned-video bit might have something to do with it

Your other link doesn't work either. So it's not just the bbc that doesn't want to play this?

I don't think MMA did itself many favours in the early days in the way it was marketed as cage fighting.

Much of the most effective moves in MMA are derived from judo (throws and submission techniques), and these can be applied without causing lasting harm.

Yeah, but it still involves punching the opponent in the head doesn't it? Without any head protection.

I watched a bit of the video on the FP of that MMA site. The commentator saying that martial arts have evolved more in the last decade that in the last 700 years was pretty weird, especially as the two guys fighting looked like they were boxing with the occasional kick thrown in.

Well, some of the greatest MMA fighters managed to win despite hardly using striking at all (the famous Gracies in particular).

Many martial arts do use punches and kicks to the head, but if anything, what MMA has shown is the superiority of throwing and submission techniques over striking. But to succeed in MMA, you need to be able to deal with an opponent who will try to hit you, even if you are not intent on hitting him.

I'm sure there is much more to it than I saw in a few minutes.

Do a youtube search on "MMA Gracie" and you'll likely find plenty of footage of Royce Gracie defeating opponents by making them submit, without the need to harm them.

Roger Gracie is currently in London helping British Olympic hopeful Winston Gordon prepare for the judo in the Beijing Olympics.

I dont' really watch boxing or come to that matter any sport. The only thing therefore I have to go on is the only person I know in RL who likes it, and his reason for liking it is that its more violent than any other contact 'sport'. From his descriptions, it involves an awful lot of head/body kicking and punching, sounds an awful lot more violent and dangerous to me than boxing due to its multiple types of err, violence (punching kicking, throwing etc., etc)

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If you have a fight with someone whose only weapon against you is going to be hitting you with their fists, you're going to end up bloody and covered in bruises.

If, however, you are up against someone who has other means at their disposal (chokes and armlocks), once they get you in an armlock or choke you'll have to submit and the fight will be over, and this involves considerably less violence.

This is how the Fedor Emelianenko v Tim Sylvia fight ended.
There was a brief exchange of blows, Sylvia slipped, Fedor got round behind him, used his judo to roll and choke him, and Sylvia had no choice but to submit.

Had it been a boxing fight, the fight could have gone on for ages with both fighters striking each other over and over again.
In MMA, with a proficient fighter the striking shouldn't last beyond the opening stages. Once the two enter a clinch or go to ground, the grappling should come in.

Of course in boxing a good referee will choose to end the fight if people are getting damaged.

Personally I'm not a *huge* fan of either. Violent sports hold little to no interest for me, I dont like seeing people getting hurt, even if they think they are enjoying it.

Having said that, the MMA guys are a bit to look at but also a little too for me...

I kinda like both.

The problem with MMA is that it is such a ocmplicated sport, deriving techniques from so many areas, it is difficult for a layman to appreciate what is going on.

Boxing on the other hand can be understood quite easily, and also has a lot of history, so many people have grown up with an instinctive "feel" for it as a sport.

A pet theory of mine is that to really appreciate a sport as a spectator then you need to have a feel for the game that you only really get if you grew up with it (I know there will be exceptions). Cricket for example I love having played and watched it since a nipper, but many of my pals who didn't, whom are otherwise psorts mad just dont get it.

FB

If this is what Ultimate Fighting from about 10 years back has evolved into then I'm not surprised it's not on telly.

The few videos I saw of it were a very poor spectator sport. Most bouts seemed to involve one getting the other in a choke hold and then battering their head with their elbow until they were unconcious. All of which took about 1 minute of time. Very exciting -- not.
In another bout I saw someone just break the other guy's arm. Charming.
And they were sweeping blood from the ring between bouts.
Mmmm niiice.

I'm guessing some of the less savoury aspects have gone, and in terms of brain damage and people getting killed then yes, even the above was 'safer' than boxing. Depending on how you paint it of course.


We've evolved a bit from the Roman Arena a little haven't we?

Kea, try this link. As I said, the striking is the initial phase. After that it's about gaining a submission, which Fedor does with hadaka-jime (naked choke)

http://www.mmaroot.com/fedor-emelianenko-vs-tim-sylvia-affliction-banned-video/

The 'affliction banned' thing is just a sponsor's name.
The video isn't banned.

Some of the replies to this article may shed light on the BBC's attitude:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/07/thursday_19_july_2007.html