h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Remember folks...British music is *good*. I'm not dismissing it. All I'm suggesting is that there's no case whatsoever that it's superior to American music.

Not that it's a competition anyway. Surely?

"Sounds like Metal to me! (Apart from the plaid shirts). Can you be more precise about Metal? Surely nowadays it covers a spectrum from Cock Rock to Speedcore...and places between and beyond?"

Well, I'm not a metal fan so I'm not a good person to ask to define the genre but I'd say it tends to be pretty fast and to feature a lot of screaming guitars and the like; it certainly sounds nothing like "Jeremy".

"And have you seen that brilliant Grammys clip where Neil Young plays with Pearl Jam and teaches the youngsters how to trash their equipment *properly*?"

They did "Rocking in the Free World" didn't they? I think I remember seeing that a *long* time ago on telly. If I remember correctly, it was largely due to Young being an influence on Pearl Jam which shows how musically-fractured the grunge "genre" was. I can't really hear much Neil Young in anything by Alice in Chains.

I am not underestimating The Beatles! See above.

Diod I not mention Brian Wilson? A staggering ommission...and I'm sure there are others.

My theory is that The Beatles (and The Beach Boys and Dylan) weren't unique. None of them worked in isolation but fed off one another. That's how popular music has to be looked at - as a set of interactions. I suppose even Coldplay have their place, as an example of hopw not to do it.

The better part of electronica is UKanian for sure, but it owes a heavy debt to disco and electro, between KW and them.

But like Zagreb said, it's about the best. You could get into infinite regrees if you get too reverential. Stockhausen, Bartok, Stravinsky...

Ah. So Alice In Chains counts as Metal? But it's not so far away from them to Husker Du, Black Flag, Pere Ubu...

The boundaries are blurred, and long may they continue to be.

"Ah. So Alice In Chains counts as Metal? But it's not so far away from them to Husker Du, Black Flag, Pere Ubu..."

I didn't say it did, I said it didn't sound like it was influenced by Neil Young in contrast to Pearl Jam who did a bit and were supposedly part of the same genre.

Having said that, I'd say "Sex Type Thing" by the Stone Temple Pilots *is* a bit metal and they were thrown into the "grunge" genre. Again, this re-inforces the view that "grunge" was various forms of guitar-rock being played by young men in plaid shirts with introspective lyrics.

Actually, out of interest (and away from the main debate) does anyone think the following songs purportedly of the same genre sound like they are:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCgG14g1vT0

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y2xNyxc5VWs

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SK7Ai9dWrRQ

I haven't heard Today in years. Thanks Zagreb And no, in answer to your question.

I don't think the 'Punk' thing could ever have happened in the US. The initial impetus for Punk was to do with class. Although it quickly became consumed by the middle classes. It was very much a working class thing initially. And somehow I can't quite imagine an American, Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious.

There has always seemed a sort of raw intensity about much of British music, not just Punk, that I don't pick up in the same way in US stuff. Admittedly that's a bit of a subjective wooly opinion . But I do think the class thing in the UK has been a factor.

I find the boundary between heavy rock and metal pretty clear - it's about the guitar sound more than anything. Nothing to do with speed or even style. Pearl Jam no, Alice in Chains yes.

I think Britain pioneered metal, but then it got boring. Iron Maiden are still doing the same thing they did in the '80s. Same with British guitar pop, or Britipop or whatever; it wasn't new when Oasis arrived on the scene and it's no newer now. The sound of a cheap guitar played through a crap amp in someone's garage should've died a death decades ago.

All the great metal bands of recent years have come from the US, with a few, mainly Scandawegian, exceptions.

"I think Britain pioneered metal, but then it got boring. Iron Maiden are still doing the same thing they did in the '80s. Same with British guitar pop, or Britipop or whatever; it wasn't new when Oasis arrived on the scene and it's no newer now. The sound of a cheap guitar played through a crap amp in someone's garage should've died a death decades ago."

Well, "Britpop" suffered from the same problems grunge did in that it was a label the media attached to a whole bunch of bands in the early-to-late '90s who superficially had things in common but, if you looked more closely, were actually all pretty different. You had androgynous guitar-pop from the likes of Suede, ballsy working-class Northern-English rock'n'roll via Oasis and slightly-arty Southern-English middle-class pop from Blur. It really was quite a smorgasbord, even more so than grunge.

Hi Effers,

The punk/class thing was all image. Of the two most influential punk bands, 2/4 of the Sex Pistols were distinctly upper class and Joe Strummer of the Clash was the son of a diplomat who went to a private school: http://www.clfs.surrey.sch.uk/interactive_tour/interactive_tour.html

Gif

I have but one word to say. That word is Genesis.

It is interesting that a lot of bands thought of as influential are from some years ago like Hendix, etc. America is of course a lot bigger than Britain so would expect there to be more bands to pick from. Yes Hendix was great but Eric Clapton wasn't too bad either and bands like Cream and Yes weren't rubbish.
I am not sure holding up Rap from America as a good thing is quite right as it seems to sound very similar to what it was 10 years ago.
.
In many ways American and British music is very differant and thankfully so. American country music is great if that's what your into but British folk music is no slouch either.
Sometimes I feel there is more individuality in British music, more quirkiness.
To say that American music is better than British music is wrong to me. Differant maybe but that doesn't have to mean better.

Okay Gif, maybe the pistols. But there were loads of others. And I still maintain the energy for Punk came originally from a working class thing, but very quickly moved away from that.

And later on bands like the Jam, (I love the Jam) You're not telling me Paul Weller speaks with a plum.

And weren't the Beatles? And Mick Jagger?

I'm not saying it's so clear cut because obviously there were plenty not working class. But I think there's a sense of that image you don't get in US stuff in the same way. I just don't see the raw energy of so many British bands coming from the effete middle classes.

(Note I am not being classest here. Okay just a bit. No-one can deny that class has traditionally been a big factor in British life.)

>>And somehow I can't quite imagine an American, Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious.

But there was one. His name was Elvis Aaron Presley. Now *that* was class-based music. So is most African-American music.

>>I have but one word to say. That word is Genesis
DaveBlackEye...

Y'know...from our encounters in a previous live, I already had you marked down as a Metalist.



Confession time: In my mis-spent youth, I listened to Genesis almost exclusively. Jesus wept - what *was* I thinking of? And this in a city where I could have been seeing the likes of Echo, The Teardrops, Wah!...







There's worse. When I wasn't listening to Genesis...














Yes.

>>Eric Clapton wasn't too bad either


No no no no no no no. I'll not have that. Yes, I know many think he's god...well, what can I say?...I'm an Atheist.

*adds Marillion to the mix*

/me proposes to Magwitch.