h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

On another thread, someone (Hello! ) has been spreading outrageous cultural imperialsm by suggesting that Britain has the best popular music. Isn't this a preposterous suggestion? At best, the UK comes second*, some long distance behind the US of A.

Now don't get me wrong. There's an awful lot of British music I adore. The Clash. The Stones. The Smiths. The Kinks. The Fall. The Libertines. The Faces. Van 'the' Morrison...I could go on. But even this is, face it, largely derivative of American music. Yes, we do our own thing with it, and we even sell it back to them...but I'm struggling to think of many bands who had such a powerful influence in the other direction. The Beatles - sure. But they were feeding off Rock'n'Roll and R&B. Dylan got some of his stuff from British folk...but he added it to his existing pot of Blues, R&B, C&W and Woody Guthrie. Can we hand on hearts come up with anyone who revolutionised music with something distinctly British?

But then America...Over the last 100 years, popular music has been America's great gift to the world. (Kurt Vonnegut said that the only reason the rest of the world continues to tolerate America is because of the unique talent of African-Americans. ) The whole history of our popular music is American - mainly African-American but with a sprinkling from Scots-Irish hillbillies and Italian-American crooners and harmony groups. Yes, we British can do it well and differently...but who have we ever had who can hold a candle to:
Robert Johsnon, Charlie Patton, Blind Willie Johnson, Eddie 'Son' House, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Moreton, Duke Ellington, Bix Beiderbecke, Bessie Smith, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holliday, Frank Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Mahaliah Jackson, Sister Rosetta Tharp, Litle Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynne, Emmylou Harris, Hank Williams, Gram Parsons, Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Hendrix, Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa, Aretha Franklin, The Supremes, The Ronnettes, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye, Sly and the Family Stone, Parliament/P-Funk/etc, James Brown, Fats Domino, Etta James, Nina Simone, Al Green, Wilson Pckett, Stevie Wonder, The MC5, The Ramones, Iggy Pop, The Velvet Undergound**, Dionne Warwick, The Womacks, Mary J Blige, Alicia Keyes, Public Enemy, NWA, Eminem, The Kings of Leon, The White Stripes...

...Can I rest my case yet?

(And this is just a free-associative list off the top of my head! There's *lots* more where they came from.)








* Although I'd make a strong case for the small island of Jamaica, where they had the genius idea of taking American R&B and playing it backwards.

** OK - 1/4 Welsh.

Led Zeppelin...

Who always regarded themselves as a Blues band...

Yes, they were influential on America - they're where Metal came from - but as a way of reintroducing them to their own music.

(and I'm not personally a major fan, but horses for son goût.)

I thought you said the best music, not the most influential?

True. Yes, I'll allow The Zep as a quality act. As I say...I like British music - but the idea that in the round the British do it better is barking.

It all depends what you're looking for. I quite like electronica (ironically, a US-invented label) and synth-pop and stuff like that and the UK is the best place to look as far as that's concerned.

In fact, there are only a few genres were I think the USA has it nailed such as blues and R&B. Hip-hop? Well, I'll take my hat off to Public Enemy, Run DMC and the likes but British artists like Roots Manuva are doing some interesting stuff that's distinctly British; Indie? Both sides of the pond have a lively tradition of white boy (and these days not so white boy) guitar bands that mutually respect each other; Punk? I think Britain has the edge there, despite pioneering acts like the Ramones, we had the Pistols, the Damned, the Undertones, etc etc.

Hmm, I'm torn. There are genres that we Brits could claim - metal and punk spring to mind (Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Sex Pistols, Clash). You could say they are based on blues and rock 'n' roll, but then again you could say that blues and rock are based on earlier styles still. If you go back far enough, all music is tribal, folk or classical and therefore pre-American - but we're no longer talking about pop.

Gif

I'd say metal is more far-flung that the traditional US-UK music axis: a lot comes out of continental Europe as well. I'm not a fan of metal, though, which is probably why I forgot to include it in my list.

Couldn't it be argued that Electronica is a German invention? I'm not convinced that Britain is a clear-cut world leader there.

(I have a German friend who has shelves and shelves of Electronica. He's the only person I know with more than one Laibach album. He has about twenty )

I think there's also a problem with dismissing The Beatles (and, by association, other British bands of that era) by pointing-out they had their roots in American rock 'n' roll. Yes they did, but they also moved beyond that to do something disctinct and original and (more importantly) hugely-influential and it's on *that* they should be judged on, not their earlier stuff which was more a bunch of kids doing faximiles of the imported American music they loved.

Is there a distinct definition of Metal? Could it not be classified simply as Heavy Rock? In which case there might be an argument for The Dead. (Not to mention Nirvana...or even Crazy Horse, even if the guy who sings with them is Canadian.)


I once bumped into Crazy Horse in a pub.

>Couldn't it be argued that Electronica is a German invention? I'm not convinced that Britain is a clear-cut world leader there.

Perhaps, certainly it was pioneered by Kraftwerk and the like, but I'm not interested in who pioneered it so much as who did it best which is what this debate is largely about, after all.

Oh, I don't dismiss The Beatles by any means. Yes, they were extyremely influential and original. In fact...I said as much. But who else of ours has been as influential as countless American artists?

"Is there a distinct definition of Metal? Could it not be classified simply as Heavy Rock? In which case there might be an argument for The Dead. (Not to mention Nirvana...or even Crazy Horse, even if the guy who sings with them is Canadian.)"

I think you're blurring genres there. Nirvana were certainly not metal, they were more stadium rock with a big pinch of punk. In fact one of the problems with the "grunge" movement, as some people have correctly pointed out, is that it didn't really have a sound so much as a mode of dress and an attitude. A lot of grunge bands (notably Pearl Jam) were basically playing pure stadium rock in plaid shirts and replacing boasts about girls with more introverted and angsty lyrical content.

>>Perhaps, certainly it was pioneered by Kraftwerk and the like, but I'm not interested in who pioneered it so much as who did it best which is what this debate is largely about, after all.

But there again...although I'm no expert...I understand that European electronica is on a par with British.

Kraftwerk? Nah, Stockhausen.

( Or was he Swiss?)

I'd also add Holger Cszukay's experiments with tape loops, during and after his days with Can.

"But who else of ours has been as influential as countless American artists?"

If you hear a lot of American artists intervied about their influences you'd be surprised. As well as obvious choices like the Beatles, the Stones and David Bowie supposedly more "minor" British acts like Pulp or Blur or even the Aphex Twin are quite often brought up. You'd be surprised how influential British music not only has been but remains in the USA and other countries.

>>A lot of grunge bands (notably Pearl Jam) were basically playing pure stadium rock in plaid shirts and replacing boasts about girls with more introverted and angsty lyrical content.

Sounds like Metal to me! (Apart from the plaid shirts). Can you be more precise about Metal? Surely nowadays it covers a spectrum from Cock Rock to Speedcore...and places between and beyond?

And have you seen that brilliant Grammys clip where Neil Young plays with Pearl Jam and teaches the youngsters how to trash their equipment *properly*?

Rough Trade's Electronica 01 collection has the original Doctor Who theme tune on it!

It's just about the only listenable track on there. BBC Radiophonic Workshop - musical pioneers!

Gif

"The Beatles - sure. But they were feeding off Rock'n'Roll and R&B."

Don't undersell The Beatles. The combination of song writing, performance, and cleverness (a la the movie "Hard Day's Night") is hard to match, IMHO.

BTW, I think you left out the Beach Boys, their album "Pet Sounds" is pretty under appreciated.

Oh, and the group that managed to get on the other side of The Beatles on the record store rack, the Beau Brummels.

But OK, I see your point. Hendrix, Janis, James Brown ... pretty good tradition.