h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Of course! Would you expect anything different?

Seriously though - there appears to be an idea that because these people are providing "entertainment", then it's OK. As long as nobody is harmed directly, then fine, right?

I disagree. I think horoscopes, crystal healers, mediums, psychics etc. DO harm people, by interfering with their ability to think. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the only thing that separates us from the animals. I think it demeans humanity to persist with this nonsense when anyone with an education they were paying attention during KNOWS it's guff.

I have to say, I would LOVE to see someone try to put this law forward. James Randi will shortly be withdrawing the million dollar reward for demonstrations of the paranormal. In over ten years, nobody has even been able to pass even a preliminary trial. Of course, nobody who makes a good living has ever applied to be tested. Sylvia Browne explicitly agreed on television to be tested, but has never followed through on her promise. Nobody is surprised.

I would love to see providers of paranormal services legally required to pass a test like Randi's before being allowed to make money from it. It would certainly scrape a lot of fraudulent scum off the streets. The only problem is, as we now discover, even the holders of the highest office in the land can be sincerely convinced there's a big beardy man in the sky, or something similar. So laws against superstition are unlikely any time soon.

SoRB

I sense a "What if...?" coming on...

>>it demeans humanity to persist with this nonsense when anyone with an education they were paying attention during KNOWS it's guff.

Rubbish. Absolute bottyrot.

education DURING WHICH they were paying attention.

Gosh.

On one level I'm properly chastised and ashamed.

And on another level I LOVE the word "bottyrot"! Thanks!

Bottyrot reminds me of Stephen Fry on QI

'That's arse gravy of the highest order!'

Well I don't normally post to say I'm in such vehement agreement with a post. But after seeing your post Robyn, I felt compelled to. I know you put after your statement, but I know a bit of general views to know roughly where you're coming from. And I'm not here to slag you off. In my present probationary state I want to avoid that at all costs. But,

>They profit from the misery and gullibility of others, and we permit it<

This is the bit that really struck me.. Although I also strongly agree with the rest of SoRB's post.

What these people do is a kind of emotional rape in my opinion. And it's because I have such a fundamentally caring attitude to my fellow 'man' that I think this as much as my intellect thinks it.

My mother who is basically an atheist, has periodic infatuations with all kinds of woo-woo, and it's always when she's desperately unhappy. Hence she's never been able to face reality properly which to my mind has emotionally crippled her.

Like I say Robyn, I'm not slagging you off, much But I can't speak out strongly enough about this conning nonsense, that plays on peoples' unhappiness and desperation.

Err sorry I missed reading the posts on this page. So I'm referring back to Robyn's post on the previous page.

Nobody has mentioned alternative therapists yet. Before I get flamed, I refer specifically to those therapies that don't work, whatever they may be, which is an entirely different argument. Surely these are the most insidiously evil of all the woo-woo scammers - not only taking money from the vulnerable, but dispensing substances that they are not qualified to understand, with unproven effects, giving false hope and in extreme cases coercing people to reject proper treatments that could have saved their lives.

If anything should be tested, licenced and regulated, it should be medical treament. 'Alternative' should not be a pseudonym for 'exempt'.

Because I was softening a direct comment on the poster not the post, Effers. To let him know we expect nothing less from him, and that it wsn't an attack, merely an observation.

Also, people seem to think that some forms of 'woo woo' only fulfill one need (i.e. the need to tell the future)... Personally I'm very interested in astrology. Not for 'fortune telling' (which is, I think, just that, I'll tell you... For a fortune!) but for what I find interesting, the personality profiling. I dont ask anyone to pay for thi sservice, I dont ask anyone to believe in it, but I do ask that people dont try to stop me enjoying it because they think that horoscope writers are money-stealing charlatans...

As for people who run premium rate lines and so on, I dont like them either. *however* what other service is actually available for people who feel they need something? They could just as easily be joining cults or ollowing inspirational speakers and paying that money. Our NHS certainly doesnt have much to offer in terms of helping people achieve peace of mind. I'm not saying 'woo woo' works (mind you, medical science was 'woo woo' once) I'm saying that there's a reason why there's a market.

It's such a huge are and people need to to be so careful.

For me, I wonder if there was maybe possilby, some truth in something that started all these things off. I don't know. But there seem to be so many scammers out there. And there are people who buy tarot cards and read horoscopes and stuff and believe it and worry about it. And that scares me.

Like there are indications in the evening about what the weather'll be like tomorrow, for example. And people used to use the stars for navigation. So what moved from this to fortune telling, seeing the future and all that?

Fair dos, Robyn. SoRB's post touched a nerve for personal reasons I think. Because I'm back after a ban, I'm quite nervous of getting too controversial about anything, (You know what I'm like? )

So I'll just leave it there, with what I've clearly and unequivocally stated in my post.

I am given to understand that there is a body of academic opinion which suggests that the better spirit mediums are actually valid therapy. When complemented with conventional psychiatry and counselling, the 'woo-woo' supposedly represents a way for people to work through their issues relating to grief and bereavement.
Personally, I'm not sure. I find it difficult to believe that self-delusion can be psychologically healthy, and the above may just be part of the practitioners' justifications/flim-flam. However, I don't know enough about it to say for sure...

If something like a tarot reading is used as a tool to focus and create an enviroment whereby a person begins to talk about, recognise, sort and order their feelings, viewing them from a slightly objective viewpoint, then I dont feel there can be any harm. The 'reader' shouldn't be putting anything in, and that's where money-making becomes a bad thing... Because making money rather than helping people to help themselves becomes a driving force.

Of course some people will be more vulnerable than others, and a few people from that group people will hurt themselves no matter what. You could give them non-toxic wax crayons, soft-edged paper and a padded, sealed cell and they'd find a way to send all their savings to ghana or somesuch...

>>You could give them non-toxic wax crayons, soft-edged paper and a padded, sealed cell and they'd find a way to send all their savings to ghana or somesuch...<<

I have both extremes in my family - my aunt is a self-avowed "spiritual healer" who gathers disciples around her and makes them pay through the nose. She believes she talks to angels. She's also one of the most self-centred people I know.

My grandfather, on the other hand, has a PhD in Psychology and worked as a hypnotist, doing chronic pain management among other things. I'm more inclined to believe in his version of "woo-woo" than my aunt's

Afternoon JB

<< Personally, I'm not sure. I find it difficult to believe that self-delusion can be psychologically healthy, >>

Isn't that to some degree what we all indulge in? If we saw ourselves as others see us we'd go bonkers!

As to the subject, I have met one or two people who seem to have an 'awareness' of things about to happen, but then , that is eaasily said after an event.

Otherwise I tend to regard it all as utter baloney.

Novo

Yeah, what about placebo medications and all that? We all jhad it as kids were we were given a sweet or a glass of orange juice and were told it had medicine in it and we felt better.

I saw a programme on tv a couple of years ago about a bloke who needed surgery on his knee. He didn't want an anesthetic and got hyponsis. He didn't feel anything and the doctors said he recovered far faster than people who'd undergone thesame sgery wit anesthetic.

I dunno how hypnosis workas and don't want to undergo it myself, but if there's something in it, it should be properly researched.

Hypnotherapy can and does work in some situations and with some people... As do many many things. The problem is that things like anaesthetic are *more* likely to work for *more* people and more consistently. Acupuncture is also used for pain relief during surgery... But not here!

Welcome to modern, western medicine.

Acupuncture.... Not sure if I'd like that. Know people who've tried it. But again, if it was researched and recommended by a GP, I might conssider it. But not without checking it out and getting a recommendatio from someone who's in the know.

Actually, I'm considering trying acupuncture, because western medicine isn't doing much for my be-lumped state

Well make sure you go to someone fully qualified.