h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thanks Abbi


The fact that the NRA hasn't sued Moore over Bowling for Columbine says alot. As Moore points out you can't make a film like that and put falsehoods in it or you'd get sued. I would say that is equally true of F 911. If there were falsehoods in that then surely people would be suing?

So I guess that leaves whether Moore _misleads_ people.



>>"I imagine "Fahrenheit 9/11" achieves about 50 percent accuracy"<<

Unfortunately the reviewer doesn't actually say which bits he thinks are the accurate ones . Nor does he give any evidence for the inaccuracy of the other bits.

Good link Abbi, thanks, that was interesting.

No way he can sqeeze out 50% of it as wrong.
He is just a poor sport

I meant the link where Moore defends himself, saying the bank scene was not staged etc. He makes an excellent point that the NRA was never able to sue him for any inaccuracies - but Kea may have said that?

Only because I'd just read that link JEllen

What Kea said about American cultural arrogance.

I played an interesting what-if scenario out in my mind the other day. "What if the Americans had never made the Louisiana Purchase?"

To cut a long argument short, the strip from the Louisiana coastline to the central northern states (Michigan) would have remained French; the railroads would have been much harder to have built; the west would have been opened up by Mexicans and Hispanics.

As a result, there would have been at least half a dozen blocks in Northern America: running south of Canada and a Russian Alaska, there would have been the Eastern States speaking mainly English with a lot of German, a swathe of French speaking countries from Louisiana to Michigan as mentioned, Texas, and a series of Hispanic countries from Mexico to North California. Alaska, California, Texas and possibly Mexico would have been rich (gold and oil); the Eastern states would have been far more focussed on Europe because they would not have been a gateway to anywhere else.

There is no point in hijacking this thread with what effect a multi-lingual, multi-national northern contenent of America would have had on 20th century history, but it sure as hell would have been different.

I think that my biggest frustration when dealing with Americans who believe that they are right is the fact that they believe that they are right. There is a circular mindset there, which it is almost impossible to break in on.

It is going to be an interesting ride. I give the USA about another 25-40 years before the implosion. The only thing certain is that the society is - as Kea points out - too rotten to survive. I'd be surprised if it was less than 25 years, but I have been wrong before.

B

Ah, the wonderful world of 'What If History'... I try not to allow myself the luxary too often... but sometimes you just can't help it.

In the case of the Louisiana Purchase, that scenario is exasctly what they were trying to prevent occuring.

The US is destined to implode at some point. Like alot of the western world it heading for a pensions crisis. What small attempt at overting the widening poverty gap are proving futile. And in a few decades time many of those eastern states will be majority hispanic states. The fact is that wealthy/educated western/white women do not want to have children and those that do often leave it too late.

US empire is one of exporting the capitalist, consumer driven ideaology. It was an empire of iconic consumer products rather than one of building something that will survive it.

WHAT IF the guards at the General Motors Headquarters had beaten Michael Moore to a bloody pulp and dumped his body in the river? It wouldn't have been the first body dumped in the Detroit River, but it's a long way from wherever GM's 'secret' headquarters are/were back in the 80s when he shot his first 'Rockumentary'.

His behaviour as an agitated trespasser who looked vaguely capable of unreasonable random violence was recorded by his own cameras. It was frightening and illegal, provocative and beyond the pale. These days Security Guards would shoot first and let somebody else ask the questions.

If you've never seen his first film about General Motors then please do before buying into anything MM has to say about anything. Did y'ever notice how people who are lying keep repeating themselves? I said 'anything' twice there.


~jwf~

I saw Roger & Me when it first came out, whenever that was. Quite awhile ago. I thought it was wonderful.

I still wonder how it is that Mr Moore has not met with a 'mysterious' accident.

I think he is very brave.

az

I think he is either very greedy or has taken rather an unhealthy liking for the influence he's having.

I am kind of annoyed about some of Moore's stuff because, well, I think he kind of discredits the side he's on with his tactics. Even if they are effective. But then I'm not sure he's altogether on my side anyway. The Democrat Party in the US seems very far right to me, and I just can't see Bush as this combined idiot and master evil conspirator.

I see Bush's failings as being along the same lines as the system he represents. Namely that people get trodden on, and the ones doing the treading don't realise they're doing it.

And bad public speaker though he may be, foolishly self-righeous perhaps too, none of that precludes him having intelligence. Even if he does think you can fight terrorism with wars.

<>

I agree with you here, kea. Never have I personally ever wanted to go to the USA, much less live there. (The health system, for one, gives me the williams.)

ben, your thought experiment is interesting... There is a writer (L.E. Modessitt) who has written a number of novels set in an alternate USA where more or less that scenario exists. The protagonist comes from a Dutch section of the continent, and there are all sorts of other interesting things...

BBITM, have a look at this site! They have a lot of interesting stuff to say about Bush, especially this section - Bush Ego...
http://bushwatch.org/ego.htm

Moore is an Independant.
He often corrects those in the press who assume he is a Democrat.

I know nothing of this film, save the clip I saw on Sky News yesterday, Bush playing golf, and calling upon the to eradicate the evil, "Now watch this back-swing"

My question is:

The 9-11, is that a reference to September 11th, (nine-eleven) or the 911 (nine-one-one) emergency call number in the USA? Which I've just realized is the same, the way the Americans post their dates.
Was that deliberate by the terrorists?

I think MM is very brave.

I do not think that date was deliberate because there have been reports about the plan having been delayed many times.

Nevertheless, abbi, many people have made much of that coincidence... Have you heard of a loony called David Icke? His website insists that the choice of date was deliberate, mind you, he also insists that everyone in power, from the English monarchy to Bush/Rummy and co, are secretly in thrall to Reptilian aliens.

>>His behaviour as an agitated trespasser who looked vaguely capable of unreasonable random violence was recorded by his own cameras. It was frightening and illegal, provocative and beyond the pale. <<

I've seen Roger and Me as well. I don't remember there being anything untoward in Moore's activities, but then I have a high tolerance and respect for civil disobediance.

I'll be interested to see what you are referring to jwf, when I watch it again

>>These days Security Guards would shoot first and let somebody else ask the questions. <<

Surely you exaggerate? They would shoot a film crew? I doubt it.



>>If you've never seen his first film about General Motors then please do before buying into anything MM has to say about anything. Did y'ever notice how people who are lying keep repeating themselves? I said 'anything' twice there<<

But isn't this just the same rhetoic? - that Moore is a liar, but you offer no proof.

Della, which are the L.E. Modessitt novels? I have checked Amazon and also googled a bit, but can't distinguish them from his main fantasy ones.

B