h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sorry, i can't help but notice that this conversation is revolving around the title of the movie. i am not familar with the book in question, but i am however familiar with the events that occurred in new york. i was there. i am a volunteer first aider. aside from the numerous civilians who perished on 911, many police, fire and ems workers also died. not because they were trapped there but because they wanted to help.


the issue is not really about the politcal parties, it is about the scamming politicians. they have lied and lied again. this is well known. i saw f911 tonight. many of us saw it coming.

WE SAW IT COMING.

now we are in a war that has nothing to do with 911, but is a means to an end. the iraqis never attacked us. we attacked them. we killed innocent people. we should be sorry. our young people are being killed and destroyed emotionally by our oil fueled war machine. i am a hypocrite, i like to drive my little car. but i would blow it into a billion tiny peices before i would trade one life for it.

on behalf of ONE united states citizen, sorry.

tfl3

I'd prefer a translation of the Latin

i wrote a bit quickly that last bit, i had only read the first bunch of posts where it was all about the title. i am perhaps a bit sensitive about this topic. i'll read moore of the posts and maybe i'll figure out it.
(translation of what? {couldn't help myself})

post hoc ergo propter hoc?

It's after this therefore because of this.

The kids listened to Marilyn Manson(post hoc)therefore (ergo) they went and shot their school mates.

The kids went bowling therefore they shot their school mates (propter hoc? don't be silly).




Love to all.

I hope this makes sense as I am running a temperature and even my hands ache!

-the title is also appropriate because there was so much paper burning -

*as i rode the ferry up the east river, i stood on the deck smoking. there were not as many patients getting on as we had expected. it was dark but the smoke was clearly visible. papers were still aloft in the air and one fluttered directly in front of me. i took it from the breeze, and read. it was part of a confidential at&t document...

many people dismiss conspiracy based on the fact that you could not get away with it, 'someone would talk'. unfortunatly, these people usually dismiss the theories and sometimes the facts as crazy talk by a bunch of lunitics. i don't know much (sometimes i wish i knew less) but some of what i know is very frightning.

FAHRENHEIT 911 IS A MUST SEE MOVIE. IT IS WORTH THE NINE BUCKS. WE ARE STANDING ON THE EDGE OF A CLIFF WHILE SOME OF US LAUGH AT THE GUY WHO KNOWS HOW THE PARACHUTE WORKS. IT IS NOT A FUNNY MOVIE. TAKE YOUR KIDS TO SEE THE KIDS WITH HORRIBLE TRAUMA. BE GLAD IT'S NOT THEM.

you might want to spare your kids the sight of blood and guts that's not on a video game, but you should not underestimate them.

Sorry grey, we must have simulposted and I didn't see your post before mine until now (my comment about the Latin _was _ for gardarene).

It makes sense that you would be sensitive about this topic


I'll definitely be seeing F911 at some point although I may wait until all the fuss has died down.

Kea, I hope my post made sense?



Love to all,

Hi, greytfl3iii, it's good to hear your point of view... I am pleased that your views are representative of some US citizens.

<>

*Some*, Della?

Careful, your anti-Americanism is showing.


az

Yes, gadarene

You should be tucked up in bed though with chamomile

greytfl3iii's post was very moving.

"I can't remember a time within my lifetime where so many people were this directly worried about what another country is up to"

- not bothered about North Korea developing Nuclear weapons? Weren't aware that France has a stock of nukes and isn't keen on giving them up?
Not aware of their not too distant past tendency to irradiate parts of the pacific at will by testing them?
Don't remember the 1980s and the Soviet Union?

Fair enough. Those worried me as much as the current US activity.

"because of the rate at which the American cultural imperialism is affecting the whole world"

That used to worry me, too. It still does to an extent. I also ask myself how much of that worry is based on envy. The Americans are terribly successful and not all of that success is based on grinding other nations under an iron heel.

Let's not forget that not everything America is blamed for happens as a result of government action, and that one company is very like another given the prevailing economic system.

When you insist on competition, there are going to be successes and failures. Do we need to regulate success?

"There is quite a bit of difference between that and actually intereferring in another country though"

- So funding someone's election campaign doesn't count? That's good to know. The US Government gets slammed for providing financial support to all kinds of shady characters all the time.

Is there a double standard here? Are we really suggesting that it's OK as long as the US isn't doing it?

Actually, Kea, having re-read your comments I can see that you aren't. But it's still worth considering.

"greytfl3iii's post was very moving"

and courageous.

<<"greytfl3iii's post was very moving">>

Yes it was. And I think it reflects more of what Americans truly believe than what some others might think is the case.

Though I *will* wonder if Bush gets re-elected.

Well, unless he blatantly steals another election.

At the moment the US is going through a very bizarre fundamentalist Christian 'going backwards' movement that is very frightening. And all that fear-mongering. Which Mr Moore showed very clearly in Bowling for Columbine.

Even many years ago, before I left Canada to live in Europe, I was very upset that the US stations we got in Toronto were so all about fear. I finally had to stop watching their news programmes. Way too OTT and often not about real news at all.

I am not anti-American per se, but I was once their very close neighbour and to be honest, those guys often scared the heckity out of me.

I *am* totally anti-Bush and whatever Mr Moore can do to make the public aware of the atrocities he has committed is fine by me.

Meanwhile, yes, there are many other trouble spots we should also be worried about. And seriously worried about.

az

As ever, az, you make a series of good points and interesting comments.

Did the OTTness of the US media strike you as sensationalist?
It does me from time to time. It's hard to get a level perspective on what happens in this country; even local news tends to focus on something immediate and visual - car accidents, shootings, you name it. I see various news helicopters fly overhead every day.

A lot of the media, the big serious media here is heavily biased towards the Democrat party. I stumbled over what appeared at first glance to be a fairly honesy disection of GWB's recent activities on a channel I don't normally watch. After a few minutes, what appeared to be a current events show began to come down on the President's side. Interesting, thought I, and watched on. As the minutes ticked by the tone became progressively more irate until the commentator was telling the world how disgusted he was that the media should treat a President this way. Somewhat startled I stayed with the show and was treated to a full blown rant about how such people are basically unpatriotic. I thought that had gone out with McCarthy.

Then he started warning the audience that this sort of person would be left behind when the Rapture came. At this point, I checked the station ID. Yep, a Born Again channel.

A large number of Americans are christians. They take their faith seriously. They are committed to it. They Believe. These people are also voters and are more than happy to vote for the man they feel represents their views. That man would be Bush. Almost none of these people have access to the wide world of the media but they do create websites and some of those are very worrying indeed but, if you happen to share those beliefs, entirely reasonable.

So if Bush is re-elected I won't be surprised.

Anyone think Moore should run in 2008? Maybe as Hilary C's veep?

*Waves to Mostly Harmless, Mycroft, Zagreb, ~jwf~, AlecTrician, Jim, Abbi, Az and Della* (So this is where all the cool dudes are).

One question occurs to me, which is "is there such a thing as a straight documentary?"

Oh, and the US has scared the willies out of me since I was 10 years old. I mistrust people who believe that they are right - including - presumably - MM.

B

I'd have to say no to that, Ben, because the film maker usually has something to say. Just as with any other kind of statement, he or she will introduce evidence to support that statement and not use evidence which contradicts it. Why would you shoot down your own argument?

Hey Gradient

>>>"I can't remember a time within my lifetime where so many people were this directly worried about what another country is up to"

- not bothered about North Korea developing Nuclear weapons? Weren't aware that France has a stock of nukes and isn't keen on giving them up?
Not aware of their not too distant past tendency to irradiate parts of the pacific at will by testing them?
Don't remember the 1980s and the Soviet Union?
Fair enough. Those worried me as much as the current US activity.<<<

Actually a few of those things do concern me, but the point I was making is that they don't usually have such a _direct_ affect on me, and as _many_ people as the US imperialism does.

And I do remember the 80s. The overriding issue then that caused people _fear_ was the threat of nuclear war. And the US had more culpability in the escalation of that particularly because they were a democracy.

Personally I think the biggest threat at the moment is environmental, and again the US is leading the way on that front mainly because it has so much power and could make such a difference if it chose.

Like I said I don't blame the US for the whole caboodle, but it does have an individual significance that no other country currently has (which is why it is so difficult to challenge).



>>>"because of the rate at which the American cultural imperialism is affecting the whole world"
That used to worry me, too. It still does to an extent. I also ask myself how much of that worry is based on envy. The Americans are terribly successful and not all of that success is based on grinding other nations under an iron heel.
Let's not forget that not everything America is blamed for happens as a result of government action, and that one company is very like another given the prevailing economic system.<<<

Ah the old envy argument. I don't actually see the US as being especially successful. The things that make a culture successful to me are how well it cares for it's people and it's land, and the US has an appalling track record from where I'm standing (health, welfare/poverty, indigenous rights, education, the environment...)

Funnily enough, there are people living elsewhere in the world that actually wouldn't want to live in the US, or want to emulate it. Most people in the country I live in love living here - we just don't go on about it. And alot of us are working hard to make sure we don't become an American colony.


>>When you insist on competition, there are going to be successes and failures. Do we need to regulate success?<<

I think competition as we know it today is hugely problematic, and yes I think 'success' needs to be regulated (mainly because most so called success in the 'modern' world comes at the expense of someone else).


>>>"There is quite a bit of difference between that and actually intereferring in another country though"
- So funding someone's election campaign doesn't count? That's good to know. The US Government gets slammed for providing financial support to all kinds of shady characters all the time.
Is there a double standard here? Are we really suggesting that it's OK as long as the US isn't doing it?<<<

I've missed you there sorry. Who is funding someone'e election campaign?

~~~

>>Though I *will* wonder if Bush gets re-elected.
Well, unless he blatantly steals another election.<<

az, it's the technical problems with the voting apparatus in the US that worries me too. Apparently in alot of places there is no paper record of the vote, so if the technology fails (or is interferred with) there is no way to manually recount votes


I don't feel particularly anti-american either. I have equally strong critiques of my own culture regarding the things I think it is doing wrong. The reason my critique of the US is so hard at the moment is because as I said it is affecting me and the country I live in much more directly than than say North Korea or France. The point being that N. Korea and France aren't engaged in global imperialism.

<<One question occurs to me, which is "is there such a thing as a straight documentary?"<<

I was referring to the traditional style of documentary making where one explores the topic without using alot of humour or entertainment techniques.



I agree that every filmmaker has their own biases. There are documentaries that attempt to present a balance of views. And there are those that attempt to present a particular view _especially_ when that view hasn't been presented elsewhere in the media.

I think there is a place for both of those.

Eats words slowly...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

MM did explain the two things I'd still wondered about surrounding the appearance of Heston and the bank scene. (in Bowling for Columbine)

http://www2.townonline.com/bolton/artsLifestyle/view.bg?articleid=27462

This reviewer did not want to like it, but still ends up recommending it in the end