h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

On another board that I post to one of the posters has been discovered to have a number of accounts, one of which was supposedly dying of cancer.

It's a long story but he's basically been outed by the site admin people, who realised that he was still posting to the board under another name when he was supposed to be in a coma and on life support.

How do you feel about this kind of deception? Is it fair game in an online community? The people on the other board were pretty pissed with him because they'd spent A LOT of time giving him sympathy and support, only to find that he was duping them all - he'd been doing it for literally months before he was caught.

So the question is, why do people do this? I'm thinking of writing a guide entry about this, maybe called something like Online hoaxes, a form of munchausens syndrome by proxy, or something like that.

Have any of you ever been taken in by someone like this, and what do you think the site admin people should do about it, should they out them like they did on the other board?

Why do you think people do it and what do you think of the people that do this kind of scam?

Editorial Note: This conversation has been moved from 'Talking About the Guide - the h2g2 Community' to 'Ask the h2g2 Community'.

They do it because they have probably watched Fight Club a few times too many*, and I think they are impressionable eejits who should get out more.

*Actually, once is enough - it's a great film but loses its impact on subsequent viewings.

I've seen fight club, but I'm not sure of the relevance to this? What do you mean Jack?

Have you ever come across one of these 'sympathy scammers?'

Someone I know knows a woman who pretends to be Viggo Mortensen online.

This from her 'running through rain' blog:

"For four years and counting…she keeps finding groups who want so much to believe that her need to be the center of attention, no matter how mendaciously, is fulfilled. Eventually people find out, but the truly sad thing is that they then engage in pure doublethink, deliberately deceiving themselves when they know better, because confronting her at that point would mean they themselves would be marginalized out of the group AND they would make themselves look like fools for having believed for so long. It’s easier to lie to yourself every day than face things and change them. I know one woman had to be institutionalized on a suicide watch over that narcissistic game-playing, and several who had to seek counselling."

Hi azahar,

So do you think that's true then? Would people actually hesitate to say anything and go along with it, just to stop them from looking stupid for falling for it?

It seems very possible, gnatty. There are a lot of very vulnerable and gullible people out there, as all credit card companies know.

az

Well there certainly is quite a few people who do this so they can get donations from people. The rest probably are trying to get attention. But I do not think it is fair game at all, just because decieving someone online is easier doesn´t mean it is okay.

I think it is a very sad thing to do, as in being a sad person. The worst of all is pretending someone has died. I watched the Airline programme and a family pretended a relative had died so they could still get on a plane, they laughed and joked when they told the film crew they had lied once they had got into departure lounge. Fortunately it is all on film and they are repeatedly shown for being scum every time a repeat is shown, one day their parents will die for real and it won't seem so funny then!

We're glad someone has raised this issue, Gnatty. It happens on h2g2 sometimes and it is always difficult to know how to react. If you had a good online 'friend' of years standing, provided sympathy to them and worried about them and you suddenly found out that they didn't exist, how would you feel? Would you want to know?

It seems especially cruel because we know there are people genuinely going through bad times who lay their souls bare on here. The sad thing is we have to warn people to always remember that they should not always necessarily take things at face value.

I think it is pretty sad, but people lie all the time, not just on the internet. It's just a fact of life and in any forum (real or virtual) you have to decide what you think about an individual. It shouldn't stop you from offering help, advice and sympathy when you think it is needed though.

I'd be okay about it if I'd just posted one bit of advice or something - but if it had gone on for ages, I'd be really angry and upset about it.

I think the thing is that you build up really good friendships online, and to know that you'd been lied to over and over again by someone you considered to be a friend - well that would be awful.

It's also not being thoughtful about what might be going on in other peoples REAL lives - the guy who was pretending to have cancer was leeching up sympathy from a girl whose mother really DID have cancer, she was so upset when she found out he'd been lying to her all that time - just devastated her really.

#6
>>"Would people actually hesitate to say anything and go along with it, just to stop them from looking stupid for falling for it?"


Yes indeed they would. There's a theory in Psychology known as 'cognitive dissonance'. It arose as a theory after American social psychology researchers, led by Leon Festinger, read a newspaper article in their local paper about a housewife called Mrs Keech. She said she was receieving messages from the Planet Clarion These told her the world would come to an end in a flood. The only people to be saved would be true believers, and the newspaper reported that Mrs Keech had followers who had left spouses, jobs, homes and family to get ready for their salvation.

The newspaper article inspired the researchers to go and infiltrate the group, pretending to be true believers. There wasn't really another way to get into the group and find out more about human behaviour. All followers sat in waiting on the night that the flood was predicted. They sat all through the night waiting for salvation, well past the appointed hour, but no flood came and there was no rescue.

Now, you'd think that the believers would stop believing and go home mummbling "sorry" to their families. But that would make them look "stupid for falling for it".

Instead, in the early hours, Mrs Keech recieved another message from the Planet Clarion, thanking the believers for their faith, which had saved the world from destruction. The believers then actually strengthened their committment and began to spread the word to others and give newspaper interviews. The theory is that to do otherwise would make them look ridiculous, and nobody wants that.

See Leon Festinger's book: "When Prophecy Fails".

I agree with the Eds that this is an excellent topic to have raised, and also to write a Guide Entry about, should you choose to do so, gnatty.

The 'Viggo Mortensen story' came about after I'd quoted Kurt Vonnegut on that blog, who once said that he thought cyberspace was “spooky” and filled with people who’ll believe anything they read.

It would be a very good idea to have an entry, or even a series of entries, that dealt with this issue and the various ways it can manifest itself. Perhaps it could even be a Front Page Talking Point thing, to get people to share their own experiences?

az

Hello coelcanth

That's really interesting, so I wonder if there's any kind of connection to online? I wonder if they worked out what Mrs Keechs motivation was in starting it up - it could be that it was a deliberate hoax for attention, it might be that she was genuninely a bit deranged, but you wonder how if that was the case she managed to draw others in?

I suppose that in the online versions, the people being drawn in are not at fault, they're just trying to be kind to someone who is apparently ill or having a terrible run of bad luck in their family. But what do you think of the person doing it? Sympathy seeking? Do you think the site admins were right to out them? Or should they just close the accounts and let them disappear into the night? Would that be harder for the supportive friends who would never know what happened to their sick friend, or should they be told the truth, however hard that is to take?

Hi Azahar,

Thanks, I'm not sure of where to start! Getting more input from people would help! I can start to write a draft out, what do I do then?

Well, you might start off talking about how most, if not all, people are different on internet forums than in RL. Much like how we are all different at work, at home, with friends, etc. So it's not likely that any people we meet on the internet are ever being their 'real' selves. And from there you could go on to list and discuss the various ways that some people purposely mislead or deceive others, and the outcomes and effects that can lead to.

As I say, it could turn into a series of entries on fraudulent behaviour on the internet, which I think would be very interesting and might also prevent some people from getting taken in by these mountebanks.

az

There was a thread here about three years ago where a supposedly abused girl was writing about her boyfriend. Several of us spent a lot of time offering advice and sympathy. I'm still not absolutely sure but I have a nasty feeling "she" was taking us all for a ride. (Boyfriend is a big baby) So you could add me to the people who would be cross if they found out.
On the other hand quite a lot of the community have been helped through birth and death and everything between by people they've never met.It's one of the great things that you can bare your soul in public and be supported by a lot of really nice people.

So what sort of things do you think people should look out for in order to spot these frauds?

I think some people need an Alter Ego (spelling?).
The personality they create for themselves is how they would *like* to be, and it's so remote from reality, that they just invent a person. It is very upsetting to find out, as I know from personal experience, but I don't think it is always initiated maliciously. I think it snowballs into this huge lie, and then has to be gotten rid of.