h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I haven't had a lot of response to this - I was hoping to get some feedback so that I could try to write a guide entry as I think this is a serious thing.

Has anyone come across spoof sympathy accounts in the past?

Should the other community members be told what happened?

Is this kind of behaviour ok and a risk of being online, or is it unacceptabe, if so why?

I haven´t found anyone where you could somehow show they were making it up. But sometimes you have suspicions, I also imagine that My Boyfriend Is Being A Baby thread might have been some sociology student or so. There also used to be a researcher on here who seemed to rather often mention being sexually abused as a child. Such a thing must be very traumatic, and so it seems odd to mention it so often and with a timing that made it seems like he/she was using it to post anything he/she wanted without criticism.

It is a serious thing - but there isn't truly much to be done other than make a personal choice on whether to take the risk of being hurt or made to feel foolish if your trust or belief or friendship is taken advantage of. There are the same issues in real life.

For me, meeting people in virtual land is worth a few risks, getting involved in h2g2 has certainly been worth some. It would spoil it to be suspicious of every poster and to withhold friendship because you're not 100% sure who you're speaking to.

Having said that, I've not personally got involved with any spoof sympathy accounts.

If the site staff become aware - I think they should tell. It might hurt but it's all part of learning about web-life. It's also a protection, isn't it?

It's not ok to pretend in order to milk sympathy, no. Why? Because it disrespects genuine need for support and betraying trust hurts those betrayed and teaches the community to build walls and become hard.
My .

Not quite on topic, but I think there are some interesting differences with this, between h2g2 and the straight messageboards.

One is the h2g2 meets. Quite a large number of h2g2'ers have met in real life, and if you haven't met someone, you may well know someone who has, and know that the site staff have met them... so less of an atmosphere of 'I might be the only genuine person here! Everyone else is role-playing'.

Also, we're here to create something, the guide and the community activities like the Post or the UG or any of the clubs and rpgs... and there's a different relationship when people get together to do something together.

And it's still a fairly 'sticky' site, so we've old timers around who've seen it all before. So perhaps there's less of a community shock factor.

More

i just think that by lying in a forum like this merely takes a way the creditability of the truthful people online. it brings speculation upon what and who you can believe. if i told you that my mum died last year probably about only a third of you would believe me, because of the doubt that has been planted in your mind by the cancer guy. to reiterate, im telling the truth, because pretending that a loved one has died is SICK.

I am one of the researchers that Xanatic maybe referring too with this "There also used to be a researcher on here who seemed to rather often mention being sexually abused as a child. Such a thing must be very traumatic, and so it seems odd to mention it so often and with a timing that made it seems like he/she was using it to post anything he/she wanted without criticism."

I just wanted to say that people deal with things in different ways, just because I have always been very vocal, it doesn't mean that I was using it as an excuse or that it was all a lie.

There are many reasons why people become very open about abuse, often because they are breaking free from being told never to tell anyone. I am not saying that my behaviour was right or wrong, it was just the only way I could deal with it.

I am sorry if people found my openness distressing, but it has helped me being open here, even though I had to deal with many people who said I should deal with my stuff in their way only.

At the end of the day, people will deal with abuse in the best way they can. There is no right or wrong way. Being open maybe considered strange by some, but others may understand perfectly. It is upsetting to find comments here, so I wonder if people have thought I was lying about it all. I have never lied about it, but those who may think I was lying obviously won't believe me. I do not want sympathy over this, I also do not think I can get away with saying anything because of it. All I can say is that when you are having a breakdown you don't always act in the best way possible. Also PTSD can lead to permanent disabilities which is what I am having to deal with now. So maybe I am desperate, angry and sometimes just scared at becoming disabled.

I hope that people do not think of me as a liar and I hope no-one comes to my page after this to offer sympathy, as this is not what this posting is about. Just remember, you may think its strange that abuse victims can be open, but that doesn't mean they are lying. Openness of abuse may even lead to more knowledge and perhaps even prevent someone else from being abused, something which drives many of us, is it healthy to keep a secret like this, if you don't want to? Just to protect others sensibilities? Abusers work in secret, we want to blow their cover open, I am sure someone will understand that.

So, you're saying that because so many people here know each other in real life, it might be harder to pull this kind of stunt off here? And that should it happen, you'd be able to cope better, because you're all pulling together already?

Its obvious that people (both here and on other online communities) do care and feel able to share quite personal stories. Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time Kaz, I think your post really shows the problem that when you get online sympathy scammers they potentially pull other genuine people into the limelight, and make people more cinical - which is why in my view the scammers are so very wrong to do what they do.

So working it out, you get a first account that has problems sick or dying and then support spoof accounts to big up the first one.

The things I'd look out for in a supportive spoof account might be

Suddenly arrive on the board and instantly have intimate knowledge of the site - know how to post, know people, make very close friends with the sick person - surprisingly quickly, if not instantly

Be unusually supportive of someone, 'bigging' the other person up, frreqently turning conversations towards the subject of their 'friend', creating get well cards, and tribute and memorial pages

Appear to know friends and family of the sick or deceased, and be in real contact - like having the phone number of family members - the cancer sufferer on the other site had his fiancee post for support and his sister, a couple of days after he died - they were supposedly recently bereaved but were driven to come and post about it on a message board that they'd never visited before.

Overdramatic posts with regular updates - terrible co-incidental happenings - very very bad runs of luck - the other guy seemed to develop the need for a new massive operation every time the subject of him lapsed a bit - and he'd manage to struggle online from intensive care to post weak and sickly messages from his deathbed - this raised suspicion because he'd surely be unable, or not allowed to post from an ITU unit (you can't even use mobiles in them).

The other thing I've seen is 'throwing yourself at the grave' - the person created a 'death memorial gravestone' type page in myspace for "the deceased", and then used spoof accounts to leave flowers, sob wildly, throw themselves on the grave etc. presumably in the hope that others would do the same.

Hi gnatty, it is hard when you realise that other people may view you as a liar. I realise in an ideal world it wouldn't matter, because we would all have friends outside of this site. However I am one of those sad cases whose only friends are here, so I rely on this place too much. This is probably also why I get quite paranoid and make an arse of myself in convos like this!

I shall not post anymore, as I know I have a view of the world that not many share and the general public here can get fed-up of my views and my paranoia. Good luck in your discussion though, its a hard one and therefore people maybe reticent about it.

Kaz, I don't think you should avoid this conversation, and I agree that it would seem hard for many to relate to this thread.
As it is, I hear in RL a lot of complaints about lying and spinning the truth around. To be fair, we're all acting up a personality in every area of our lives anyway- on here I'm Elly@h2g2, in work I'm my boss' PA, to my kids I'm Mummy, etc. And these are all quite different personas that have common themes, and make up me together. No one is really REAL on the net, as such. You choose your tone, attitude and approach to others and push it forwards, to see if it sinks or floats.
The problem starts when we try to define who's truthful and who's a liar. It may cause distress to people that their opinion is quickly ruled out, and that distress brings up a traumatic memory to their mind and then, inadvertantly, they mention it on the thread.
In the end, we each choose how to react to the challenges we meet, and if you choose to become more cynical because someone made up a story, which they probably needed for their own shortcomings, then so be it. I'm not saying this is the way to go, and I'm saddened by these incidents, but I appreciate that you can't avoid them, and the upside is that you get yet another proof that there are, warm, kind and caring people in this world, and some of them we even know.

My worth.
As in RL, I am open and honest about my medical issue. Not to seek sympathy but simply so people know if I disappear for a while it's not because someone has upset me or whatever, it's usually because of the ongoing heart condition and other problems. I don't post very often about it, same as only a few close friends off hootoo are aware of the full nature of my condition and the complications therein. Having said all that, anyone who is shown or proved to have lied about illness, bereavement or the like frankly would suggest to me they have a psychological issue that needs professional attention.
There are the minority who perhaps have a sick sense of humour and see no wrong in doing this as well.
It angers me when people lie or deceive in order to gain whatever they seem to think they deserve, whether that be attention, sympathy, friendship or whatever. Its an act of selfishness and can be mean and nasty. As always it's this minority that then cause the majority to be tarred with the same brush resulting in the genuine cases being ignored.

Hi ST, sorry you're having a rough time at moment. Didn't realise it was you with name change!

So, you're saying that because so many people here know each other in real life, it might be harder to pull this kind of stunt off here? And that should it happen, you'd be able to cope better, because you're all pulling together already?
No. I could still be the B'Elana who goes to meets and be somebody else on various other accounts with no obvious connections to my B'Elana persona.

... your post really shows the problem that when you get online sympathy scammers they potentially pull other genuine people into the limelight, and make people more cinical - which is why in my view the scammers are so very wrong to do what they do.

Agreed, since I got aware of a few, I wonder if I'm getting paranoid.


So working it out, you get a first account that has problems sick or dying and then support spoof accounts to big up the first one...
... Suddenly arrive on the board and instantly have intimate knowledge of the site - know how to post, know people, make very close friends with the sick person - surprisingly quickly, if not instantly

Be unusually supportive of someone, 'bigging' the other person up, frreqently turning conversations towards the subject of their 'friend', creating get well cards, and tribute and memorial pages

Appear to know friends and family of the sick or deceased, and be in real contact - like having the phone number of family members - the cancer sufferer on the other site had his fiancee post for support and his sister, a couple of days after he died - they were supposedly recently bereaved but were driven to come and post about it on a message board that they'd never visited before.

Overdramatic posts with regular updates - terrible co-incidental happenings - very very bad runs of luck - the other guy seemed to develop the need for a new massive operation every time the subject of him lapsed a bit - and he'd manage to struggle online from intensive care to post weak and sickly messages from his deathbed - this raised suspicion because he'd surely be unable, or not allowed to post from an ITU unit (you can't even use mobiles in them)...
...the person created a 'death memorial gravestone' type page in myspace for "the deceased", and then used spoof accounts to leave flowers, sob wildly, throw themselves on the grave etc. presumably in the hope that others would do the same.


That's spooky, exactly this has been going on here for years.
Looks as if somebody found out, so the accounts went quiet - but couldn't you bet, new accounts popped up, starting in exactly the way you mention above.

Would I tell the community? No, for the following reasons:

a) I have no proof
b)lots of people would feel so foolish, they'd rather lynch me (shooting the messenger) than to admit they fell for the scam.

I'm not sure about whether or not to tell the site admins, because I have no proof and don't want to look as if I was starting a witch hunt.

Oh, and to come back to your question in post #1:
what do you think the site admin people should do about it, should they out them like they did on the other board?

Tricky. On the one hand, I do think the site admins should make it public if they have proof, but on the other hand this would be against the policy of not discussing moderation etc issues online, which I generally agree with.

Yes, I think those two things are true, I think it would be rare that a person setting up this kind of deception would turn up and meet people face to face in their ‘well behaved’ persona.

But what I was really saying was that having confidence in the reality of quite a large number of site members - typically regular and involved ones (because they often go to meet-ups) - makes you feel less vulnerable to the odd, 'odd' apple. So you can take more risks and be better able to deal with it when it happens.

On what might start ringing warning bells, the things you've listed would be indicators - though some could happen genuinely. Someone's friends might join up. Something you didn't mention is posting style - it's not as easy as you might think to disguise your 'written-word voice'.

When I said the community ought to be told, I meant by site staff, not site members' suspicions.



B’Elana, you've half told - everyone's going to be speculating. I really think you should let the italics know now and then instead of all of us wondering, we can just wait for the italics to either say something or assume all’s well - that either there's nothing to report or that they've sorted things out - if they don’t.
Waz

Waz, I've thought about this on and off, and I've decided not to do anything at the moment, but just watch how things will develop. Don't forget, I may be completely wrong, and I wouldn't want to draw suspicion on completely innocent researchers.

Fair enough. I think you might've already drawn suspicions but hope not, and it's maybe as well to wait and see.

The thing that bothers me is that although 'gnatty' has been around for a year, and has been around on the message boards more than h2g2, what do we really know about gnatty? Is it a secondary account? Why has he/she barely anything on their personal space? Why does the account post on so many different message boards? Why does he/she claim to be 'new' when they've had their account a year and been using it all that time? Why has this discussion been brought to h2g2, when it came up on One Life?

Before people pour their heart out about spoof accounts to a stranger, perhaps we'd better be sure this *is* a stranger.

There - that's my take on spoof accounts. We can't ever be sure anyone is who they say they are, and my experiences working on community websites make me suspicious of nearly everyone I haven't met.

Yes, it was one life, but you're not allowed to discuss it at all on there now - its a banned subject because he kept coming back.

I agree with what you say, H&S, and you can bet I had a look at gnatty's PS and convos before I posted here yesterday. And yes, I, too, wondered whether it's a secondary account - paranoia hitting in, or what?
Still, I think it's a worthy discussion.