h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"What was 'Masturbation of the Daleks' like anyway?"

Do I have to say it?

It was a load of old w**k.

SoRB

"I just watched the last episode of tardis and was thoroughly underwhelmed. Honestly, the writers keep trying to crowbar a bit of moral ambiguity into the Daleks, but it always comes back to >Exterminate<. Is it not time the file was closed on this tired formula and a new nemesis emerged, for a new generation of Doctor Who fans? Has the Evil Cruet Set had its day? Or is this blasphemy?"

Hmmm... good question. I think good writers can continue to do interesting things with the Daleks. I re-watched "Revelation of the Daleks" recently and there were some great ideas in that, although they suffered under the low budget and poor quality of acting from most of the cast (and some dreadful dalek voices - you don't know how good Nicholas Briggs is until you rediscover how it used to be). Unfortunately, the daleks are a bit one-note. They were only really brought-in to give the Doctor a "proper" sci-fi enemy and they were killed-off in their first story. They only returned due to their enormous popularity.

Which raises another point - the daleks not only remain popular but have a large new fanbase. The remote-control model daleks flew off the shelves a year or so ago by all accounts. Since they're popular with the public the Beeb will insist on their returning regularly - it's notable that they've made four appearances in Who in only three years.

So, I think the daleks still have life in them but it needs imaginative writing which "Daleks in Manhatten"/"Evolution of the Daleks" lacked being a re-tread of the well-worn "daleks go all human" storyline. I'd actually like to see Davros brought-back* but without his dalek henchmen and as the quarry of the daleks. That would be an interesting story.

*Given that there have been a couple of references to Davros so-far, I imagine the Beeb and RTD are considering it.

We need to see the Daleks as a threat again, this is something they just aren't at the moment. They are currently almost at the level of a comic break.
Still the best moment in the newer series, for me, was when during the Dalek attack on the space station (one where Rose went godess) a Daleks lights flashed but you couldn't hear the word "Exterminate" because the Dalek was in space and sound doesn't travel in a vacuum. Though I am willing to admit this is about as geeky as it gets.

"We need to see the Daleks as a threat again, this is something they just aren't at the moment. They are currently almost at the level of a comic break."

I agree. I really like SORB's suggestions regarding fast-moving killer daleks, that would work very well.

One other thing I noticed when watching "Revelation...", incidentally, was how *nasty* it was. Davros was properly-evil not just moustache-twirling "comic book villain" evil in the way too many baddies in the new series are. There's a couple of moments that are disturbing in their cold-bloodedness. And when the daleks showed up they generally shot-first and asked questions later. Not like the daleks in "Evolution...".

The sense of how evil and scary the Daleks are currently is set almost entirely by the Doctor's reaction to them, which they rather fail to live up to. They are becoming the way the velocerpatrs (sp?) did in later Jurassic Park films- not dangerous enough. Also, they are, as has already been said, starting to be sort of comedy panto villains. Actually, I though the most effective of the recent Dalek epidsode was with just one Dalek when Christopher Eccleston met it (sorry, I don't know the names of the episodes). Having said that, I though perhaps the best line from last series went to a Dalek:

Cybermen: You will kill all of the Cybermen with four Daleks?
Dalek: We will kill all of the Cybermen with ONE dalek.

Nice.

I concur with BPM: the best episode so far is the one with the single Dalek. However, I contend that there are better lines.

Which ones?

The one that springs to mind is from the last pair, ironically since I have already said I didn't like them. Anyway, Dalek says:

"If we are superior, why are we not triumphant?"

Which has the kind of conciseness I sort of expect from them.

Dalek (i.e. the episode with 1 Dalek) was good. I stick by the favorite line being well the absence of the exterminate but the "If we are superior, why are we not triumphant?" was good.

I didn't see the recent two-parter. I think that the other Dalek episodes of the last 3 seasons have been amongst the stronger episodes but have all failed to live up to the weight of expectation generated by the icon status of the Dalek.
I was disappointed by 'Dalek' in the 9th Doctor's season in much the same way as SoRB/Hoovooloo.

And yes it was AWESOME when we saw the Dalek's lights come on but we couldn't hear the "EXTERMINATE".

Steven Moffat's contributions so far have been the only fully satiating episodes, IM honest O.

Which ones were they?

Re: fast moving Daleks - it's important (to me) that they trundle slowly almost all the time, and just very occasionally show the ability to be blindingly fast. It's like the difference between a worm and a snake. They look very similar, they move similarly most of the time, but you know that if it wants to, a snake can strike so fast you can't see it move. They are therefore terrifying, somewhat the more so because most of the time they seem so innocuous.

I do hope someone who writes Dalek stories has (or sees) this idea...

SoRB

Went to a wedding on Tuesday, which had a lot of Who fans at it. The general concensus was that they liked the idea of comedy, skulking-in-sewers daleks if it wasn't overdone. As to bringing back the paraplegic prune, nay nay and thrice nay! He was thoroughly overdone in the old cannon, and the only time he made any sense was in the first story (Revelation?) and the Peter Davison one where his lunacy and hatred and life was actually chilling.

In actual fact I'd suggest that the original (ie William Hartnell) 'Dalek Invasion of Earth' just about knocks the sh*t out of any dalek story since.

Best Dalek line ever;

'This is not war. It is pest control.'

Davros would work, but only if you did two things:

1. Got someone really good to write him.
2. Got someone REALLY good to play him.

The original story was "Genesis", Blues.

Davros should be the Hannibal Lecter of the Whoniverse. It should be terrifying just imagining what's on his mind. It should be absolutely clear that he regards every living thing he sees as nothing more than an interesting bug, to be experimented upon, toyed with, or squashed as the moment suggests. Played like that, he'd be worth bringing back.

Suggestions for who could play him? Realistically you're not going to get Anthony Hopkins...

- Tony Head would be good. He was "doing" Lecter as Mr. Finch anyway, and the prosthetic would cover his face
- others?

SoRB

I seriously doubt that Tony Head needs to take parts wearing sweaty rubber masks. Besides, I remain to be convinced that 'Mr Finch' won't be back at some point. It was only an explosion, after all.

I think Davros would be a huge mistake. RTD has gone in such a different direction with the God/Emperor and the Council of Skaro that Davros is an irrelevance. I would be seriously disppointed if he was to make a comeback, and my gut feeling is that such a tactic would be 'the beginning of the end' for Who and tosh such as 'Dragon Fire' would only be just round the corner.

The trouble is that Rose pretty much did for the Emperor and all the Daleks in this universe, and the Cult of Skaro are down to one member.

In fact, story idea right there - Caan's next "thinking outside the box" move is to find Davros. Nah - second thoughts, Davros isn't a Dalek, and therefore inferior. Possibly.

I have to say that personally, I think we've already had some stinkers. "Love and Monsters" was, to me, as bad as anything Sylvester McCoy ever did, even if it did have better special effects.

And lest we forget, in 2004 there was a persuasive school of thought that said bringing the Daleks back *at all* would be a huge mistake, that they weren't scary any more, that the kids of today wouldn't like them, etc. etc. Consider how that argument sounds now, with Dalek toys flying off the shelves.

It seems a perennial problem for sf series, and indeed for any ongoing fiction, that it's difficult to maintain credibility of a recurring enemy. Because if their recurrence is to be, as it should be, properly scary, they need to be a real threat. But if they're a real threat, how come you keep beating them?

Star Trek was the worst for this. They had a fantastically disturbing and powerful antagonist in the Borg - then over the course of a few years proceeded to pull their teeth almost entirely. Ditto Species 8472 in Voyager - shockingly different, powerful and new at first, but within a couple of years, toothless talkers. The only villains Trek managed to keep impressive from start to finish were the Jem'hadar in DS9.

In Doctor who, it was the Master - forever twirling that moustache, looking down on less intelligent lifeforms, and yet getting thwarted pretty much every single time.

Re: sweaty masks, you wouldn't think they'd hire someone as recognisable as Ardal O'Hanlon, then disguise him as a cat. Besides, Tony Head has done his share of sweaty mask work on "Buffy". I don't imagine he'd be that averse.

SoRB

As one of the three people who liked 'Love and Monsters' (though rather like the film of 'A Boy and His Dog' it was crippled by a stupid closure piece) I can't agree that it was as bad as 'Dragon Fire'. Or most of Colin Baker's run, to be honest.

On the other hand I must admit to being fairly 'unfussy' when it comes to Who. It fills a 45 minute gap on a Saturday night before I go to the pub. Providing it gives me a few laughs and a bit of 'ha ha ha did you see the comedy skulking daleks' down the pub, then it's job well done.

Not as if it's Deadwood.

A name has just come to me if you want a new Davros.

Nabil Shaban.

In terms of the Dalek threat my view is that keeping the numbers down is the best way forward. The doctor might be able to beat one Dalek or two or three, but if he keeps coming up against hoards of the buggers and still wins then it does become a bit silly. Love and Monsters was a silly episode and smacked of someone running out of ideas rather than interesting or novel. Looking back on last series I enjoyed The Satan Pit and The Girl in the Fireplace among others.

Toby Jones is probably the acknowledged leader in sweaty-mask work (Hellboy, Pan's Labyrinth, the "Gentlemen" episode of Buffy, the upcoming Fantastic Four sequel) and has recently started proving he can do vocal work as well. He's very trendy though, so I doubt they could get him for Davros unless he's a Who fan.