h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi people,

(I haven´t been here since post 5621, I haven´t read them, too many)

Clive, your link has reminded me some Stephen Crane´s lines:

from War is Kind:
" A man said to the universe:
´Sir, I exists!´
´However´, replied the universe,
´The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation"

It was written in the 19th century. The universe for many writers and thinkers is not benevolent. They don´t believe in a omnipotent Providence concerned with the human welfare.
They ALREADY! knew that we human are physical-chemical beings in a physical-chemical universe. Destiny is absolutely indifferent to human existence.
But we human love stories, fantasy, rituals...

and a healthy, cheerful, creative, delectable Happy New Year to you all

Thanks, Mar for taking the time to read it.

just clocked this over on CiF - a bit on religion and morality which was being discussed on here recently.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/anne_wollenberg/2008/01/the_good_in_god.html
just for info, the argument is pretty much as it went on here.

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I remember a real life version of this scenario when I was back in Toronto about ten years ago. A woman (I think an illegal immigrant from the Philippines) had taken up 'residence' in a local church. I think she lived there for over a year, and while she was inside the church there was no legal way to have her deported. I don't know what became of her as I left Toronto shortly afterwards. But there was never any talk of the priest being arrested or charged.

Re: the Kenyan incident, I think your point, that "maybe they didn't expect God to save them simply because they were in a church, so much as they expected that those who were trying to kill them, would respect the concept of sanctuary and leave them be" is a valid one. On the other hand, maybe they just fled into the first building they came to for shelter. Making assumptions about why they took refuge in the church seems unjustified because none of us know - or can know - what was going through their minds when they chose to take refuge in the church.

Yes, isn't The Shat fabulous in Boston Legal!

az

Found a good site on the theological justification for intercessory prayer, laid out in a simple, easy-to-understand way.

http://russellsteapot.com/comics/2007/mastering-your-operational-excellence.html

Gif

Well, I came across this ... makes as much sense as prayer to me.

"You’ve got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb6PHCVOU7s&feature=related

Biblical references notwithstanding, it's a fine message! Good ol' Johnny Mercer.


az

I love Russel's Teapot.

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Absolutely!

Yes, isn't The Shat fabulous in Boston Legal!

He has (and always has had) the priceless ability to laugh at himself... As another aide, I am reminded that back in about 2001, on the BBC Cult message boards (Star Trek) one couldn't write Shatner, because it would be nanny-wared, and had to put Sh@ner! (Also P@kistan, which was because apparently, the assumption was that the only mention of Pakistan would be for racist purposes. Ah, the old days! )

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I am reading the article - and the comments, with some bemusement! Why is everyone over-reacting so hysterically against Ms Wollenberg? I had to get to the bottom of the page to find a comment that wasn't telling her how badly wrong and evil and ignorant she is! Wow, take a chill pill, atheists!

Vicky

For example, there's one person who says this :<< "I'm not religious, nor do I claim to be in the piece."
Are you sure you are not? Because it would help explain this comment of yours. ">>>

Well, she ought to know, surely? Why does he feel entitled to accuse her of not being sure at the least?

Vicky

Probably no reason at all. Infact there is no accusation to feel justified in making. Its a question. You can tell by the question mark.

Perhaps if you hadnt jumped at this non existant problem to put another researcher down I wouldnt have the opportunity to remind people about this:

One researcher here lets call him badgerblicky in the general chat of a conversation told CatWomanDella that he is black. CWD thought he was lying and denied the easily varifiable facts so much so that she didnt accept BBs word fo a long time and so vehemently that she ended up calling him a racist name.

So what you need to learn is not the difference between an accusation and a question as Im sure your not so stupid that you're unable to grasp that. What you need to learn is not to read other peoples posts with reading into them the same thoughts you put into your own.

Or you can carry on, it makes me laugh anyway.

,rainbow>

Talking of William Shatner, it's a little-known fact that in the early 80s he was engaged to Stevie Nicks from Fleetwood Mac. Their relationship ended when she realise her married name would be Stevie Shatner-Nicks...

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<> Bingo!

<< Their relationship ended when she realise her married name would be Stevie Shatner-Nicks...>>

Wow, !

Vic

There was a programme on UK Channel 4 called something like ‘The Kidnapping Of Elizabeth Stone’.

I only saw a bit of it but basically a teenage girl was kidnapped in the US. Her father went to hospital due to stress and he was given a blessing(presumably by a priest/vicar). He aid that at that point he heard ‘The Lord’ speak to him and say something along the lines of ‘You need to get up. Walk out of here. You will get through this.’

At no time during this little speech did GOD actually say something useful like:

‘Elizabeth has been kidnapped by someone called XXXXX YYYYYY and is being held at 12, ZZZZZZZZ Street.’

No, that would be too useful. It wouldn’t have been any bother for GOD to do that but as we can read from the Bible he is a vindictive, sadistic individual so what should we expect?

And yet the father didn’t even think about asking him he took strength from it…he was probably asking the police all the time: have you any leads on where she is. To which I presume they would say: not yet sir, we aren’t psychic…maybe you should ask someone who is approaching psychic or possibly omnipotent.

Hi Dots,

That sounds like a positive influence of religion to me.

Yes, your example would seem to show the absence of a benevolent God rather than the existence of one; but the father's life seems to have been improved by his belief. For all we might criticise the father (rather uncharitably, imo, given his circumstances at the time) for not thinking clearly and rationally, or for being weak and needing faith, surely religion here has been helpful to him and is therefore a positive thing?

I can't find anything on the web on this case; what was the outcome?

Gif

Oh, hang on, I've found it - 'The Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart'.

There's an article on it at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping

Be back when I've read it!

Gif

"[The kidnapper] was a polygamist who believed it was his religious right to have more than one wife even by force."

He was also an itinerant preacher, and has been declared mentally unstable and incapable of standing trial.

So perhaps not such a shining example of the benefits of religion, then.

Gif

Only if you divorce the fact that his god could have told him where his daughter was.

Of course, if we are just talking about 'religion' as a man-made it IS good in that it gave him some strength but bad that he actually hears a voice in his head that he believes is his god...both the strength aspect and the hearing voices aspect can both be sorted out by a could shrink/counsellor.