h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

psychocandy,

My first class of the day was cancelled so now I can relax with my coffee and take my time.

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Actually, sounds a bit scary. When I was 21 I weighed 114 pounds (I'm 5'4"). A couple of years ago I was showing my boyfriend old photos of me and came across one from that time and as I gazed longingly at the 'Audrey Hepburnish' upper arms I used to have Pablo went 'ick! You look terrible in that photo, like your head is way too big for your body!'

I can't help but think that in order to start eating in a healthier, less emotional way the first step should be forgetting (for the time being anyhow) about trying to lose weight. I think that most attempts to diet and lose weight are not healthy and tend to create very negative feelings. In fact, the main reason people go on diets is because they don't like how they look, so already they are beginning something with negative motivation, which cannot be a good thing.

Earlier I mentioned a book I read last year called On Eating by Susie Orbach. It's a really eensy book - can be read in about an hour. And it's all about changing how one thinks about food rather than changing the food itself. I don't usually go in for trendy self-help stuff but this book just made a lot of sense to me.

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Yes, and you're probably not as overweight as you think you are. I think I am thirty pounds overweight but if I did lose that much weight my face would probably collapse

It seems to me that as long as someone with an eating problem continues to tackle the problem just by controlling their food intake then it will always be a vicious circle. Because the food isn't the problem, is it?

Well, now I must get ready for my next class. Talk to you later.



az

Interesting thread!

I know that when I am unhappy I am less able to control what I eat. When I am feeling good about life generally, I find it much easier to stop eating when I have had enough, and not snack so much - so for me, successful dieting needs a positive state of mid.

Also, in the first year of my diet (when I lost tons of weight) I went for the 'eat less food, do more exercise' approach. No foods were particularly forbidden and I allowed myself the occasional takeaway and bottle of wine. I kept that up until the summer of last year.

When summer came I began to try 'diets' - a variety of different ones. They don't work! Any regime that says 'Eat as much of x as you like, so long as you avoid y' doesn't factor in just how much x I can put in my face if I feel I have permission. This (in combination with a change in circumstances at work) meant that I ended the year a little heavier than I began it - having hit a low of 73 pounds lost in June I ended the year at around 60 lbs lost.

I'm working on that now, and am 8lbs back in the right direction. It is hard work going over old ground but I know I will get there in the end. I do try and see my eight loss in a positive way - I am not changing because I don't like how I look (this is helpful in trying not to put any more on) but because of how much better I feel physically.

I think this is more or less on-topic...

I had my regular Monday meeting with someone today at work. She turned up and started with, 'You're going to be a ing miserable [vulgar word] today, aren't you?' After a startled silence on my part, she explained that she can judge my mood by the state of my desk. Apparently, if I'm busy and happy, there will be a sandwich on the desk. If I'm busy and not enjoying it, there will be a packet of chips/crisps. If I believe my job has big pointy teeth and sharp claws, there will be chips and chocolate. Today, she pointed out chips, chocolate, fizzy drink and a take-away menu from the local Thai place.

I can honestly say I'd never noticed the relationship between my mood and the amount and type of food on the desk before. But she's quite right. Today was especially bad, and I must have piled up the junk food as some sort of edible defence system. This is probably a really bad idea, and I must stop it...

Ivan (who feels no urge to eat tonight, after wolfing down all that lot today).

hi Kelli,

Well, I obviously agree with you that diets don't work. I mean basically, people become overweight by a combination of eating too much and doing too little. So in theory, becoming more active and eating a bit lighter (with no forbidden foods) should work for most people who want to lose weight.

However, it's when emotions get caught up with how we eat that this theory runs into difficulties.

Having said that, I am now considering writing the 'Rollmop and Celery Diet Book' and making a fast cool million €€€ At which point I will be able to hire a personal trainer, personal masseur, personal cook and will end up looking like Madonna (well, without the collagen donald duck lips and botox forehead).



az

It is recognising those emotional links to food that is important so that we can learn appropriate responses. Keeping a food diary for a while helps to identify your emotional triggers for food - note down what you eat, but also what you were doing and feeling at the time, who you were with, what time it is, and so on. Once you know your triggers you can start doing something about them.

It also takes a mental shift to get away from the lies we tell ourselves and the ways we excuse ourselves for lack of control. That is why I am trying to shift my mindset from 'being sad makes me eat too much' which has an insidious kind of permission to eat too much if I am down, to 'being sad affects my ability to control what I eat' which doesn't. Having a splurge now and again is ok IF it is a decision you take responsibility for.

I agree that having a personal trainer, nutritionist, chef etc would help enormously. That is why I always laugh at the celebrity diets...

So what does hummus mean? Thick, creamy, earthy,and filling. I wouldn't eat it with ice-cream. I like it because its convenient, goes with dry toast, and you can stuff it down when your starving and its reasonably good for you. Fattening though (damn, I wasn't supposed to bring that up) (damn again sounds like an eating disorder now). I have made brown bread ice cream which is surprisingly delicious. Right now I'm eating roast chicken with spuds, and veg and sage 'n' onion stuffing with lashings of gravy.(Yesterdays left overs)

My bestest comfort food is cheese on toast. I am allergic to cows milk and all its derivatives (including shady food additives like lactose and casein) (especially casein). It gives me eczema. As I write this I sit here trying VERY hard not to touch my poor raw shins or I'll go into a scratching frenzy and bleed onto my socks (not good look when dealing with public). Now, I can eat goat's and sheep's cheese until it comes out of my ears, and there are some very very yummy ones on the market that make spiffing cheese on toast. But over Christmas (horrible bl**dy time this year, all death and destruction) staying at other people's houses I found myself eating (argh!) CHEDDAR. And GRUYERE. I must be mental. I've been red-raw ever since. What kind of dappiness about food makes a lass eat food she knows darn well will make her sore and itchy, let alone all the 'fattening' codswallop I refuse to pay any mind to these days?

I blame all the 'starving children in Africa' and 'don't waste anything' propaganda of my youth in so far as I can't leave anything even if I'm full to danger, but I don't understand why i feel compelled to eat food, however yummy, that'll make me really truly physically ill (rather than make me ashamed and miserable) (which I don't do anymore. No, honest, I don't. I won't. And you can't make me).

I do have a major passion for a local goats cheese, but unfortunately it is very very expensive. I do have a problem with ezcema too, palms of hands and soles of feet in particular. I haven't been able to not eat certain foods for long enough to work out if that is the cause. I may try out your method and see what happens. luckily ezcema on the feet means you can't really scratch it when at work, or when asleep.

Hi Fat-Kelli - I like the idea of recording your emotional state when keeping the food diary.

I'm going to do that.

Hi Agapanthus, (we met at the meet, remember)

I have an intolerance to diary, but not so bad as you. I came across this in another thread which is interesting.

http://www.nutrimed.com/SUGAR.HTM

The mechanism why we crave things which are bad for us has always fascinated me and I've never quite understood it, except that it is something in our bodies crying out 'feed me!'.

hi Agapanthus,

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A friend of mine who is diabetic had therapy when she was first diagnosed to help her get over feelings of 'food deprivation' for all the things she suddenly couldn't eat. But it continued to be very difficult for her to give up certain things totally, even though she felt terrible afterwards if she did eat them.

I could very happily live without chocolate or other sweets but if I was told tomorrow that I could never have cheese, bread and again I honestly don't know what I'd do! Ohhhh, don't even want to think about that.

az

*waves to Zarquon*

Hey, long time no see!

az

Sho,

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As well as noting the emotions surrounding a desire to eat, another idea is to also note how you feel - both emotionally and physically - after you eat something. Often I crave something that ends up not sitting well after I've eaten it. And often the emotion that went with the craving is *still* there after I've eaten. So then I end up feeling physically kind of crappy as well as still in the same crappy emotional state.

az

Well, I've known a couple of people in my time who could well be described as bon viveurs. One was diagnosed with adult-onset diabetes, the other with high cholesterol. Both found it very difficult to adapt to their new circumstances - one in conjunction with alcohol intake (supposed to be zero - AOD wasn't the only health problem he had) and the other with cheese - because it's so b****y delicious!

Nothing further to add. Just lurking.

I held a record for drinking a pint off red wine from the bottle in one for over ten years. Iwas understandably proud of my aceivments

Even Liz sheers me on when I do it but she also tells me with the histiory of diabetes in my family I ought to be more careful about what I put down my neck. Thing is she's a community nurse and deals mostly with diabetes patients who are losing their sight have bad circulation, ulcers etc due to their condition, but still offers me a drink the minute I wlak through the door at her place

We do have a relationship that for alot of us ignores the fact that we have too much fat, protein, sugar and alcohol readily available to us. The predominant attitude is still to eat like you might not get the chance again and to climg to old recipes that were designed to make up for the lack of food available. My friends second generation irish immigrant parents still eat coddal, my dad who if you look at him you'd know hasnt been hungry for atleast the last 30 years makes all sorts of heavy stodgy (admittedly dishes) that were meant to make up for not having much to eat from day to day.

I want to be healthy and having realistic information about my diet I cant blame anyone else but me for my diet, maybe the lack of education does affect some, but theres no reason for lots of people ignoring the fact that todays lifestyle means we need 30% less calories than we did pre WWII.

But when they line up the drinks on presidents day, christmas, last day of the season...etc... I know I wont be able to resist.

When winter (or any season or festval) comes around I know I will start to pine for the appropriate lard laden, brandy drenched, extra salty, deep fried, rolled in sugar and glazed with honey favourites from my youth.

one love

Hi all, I've been meaning to reply sooner but have been working extra hours and it's left me kind of tired. I finally have a couple of hours in which I can sit down and get back to this.

Azahar, thanks for your reply. I wish I could say that when I looked at photos of myself when I was considerably thinner, I thought that I'd looked bad. I didn't, though. I've always been "petite", and have a smaller frame, so weighing less would be better for me. I might not be as overweight as I perceive myself to be, but I definitely weigh more than I ought to. And I am much heavier than I would like to be. No matter how many people tell me that I don't look "that bad", I still think I do. I doubt that anyone could ever convince me otherwise!

You make a good point that by dieting, people are already beginning with a negative motivation. Even the way I look at it (and other people do as well, I know) is pretty negative- "I've got to quit eating so much ----", "I have to get more exercise", etc. It's hard to get motivated to exercise properly when you're exhausted and in varying degrees of physical pain to begin with. Going about it with the mindset that you "have" to do it just makes it worse.

I don't think that the problem can be entirely attributed to eating habits and physical activity levels, at least not for everyone. I think there is nearly always some kind of negative emotional issue attached. The key is getting to the root of the problem, and then tackling it in a positive manner. But exactly *how* does one do that?

I also agree with Kelli, that the "diets" which deprive your body of certain foods and allow you to stuff yourself with others can't possibly factor in just how much of that "other stuff" people are capable of stuffing in when properly motivated. Most people I know who lost a lot of weight while on low-carbohydrate and other such diets eventually gained it back. Some of them put on even more than they started out with.

Kelli's approach worked with me a few years ago when I lost most of the weight I gained after my accident. Eating a variety of foods, but in smaller quantities, walking a lot, and allowing myself the occasional treats which included a weekend dinner out with wine or cocktails once each week. It's much easier not to binge on certain foods if you don't disallow them completely and increase the temptation. I also found that by allowing the pasta and tiramisu and wine from time to time, I felt less guilty about having them when I did. Why doesn't that approach work anymore?

I also can relate to what Ivan said about using junk food as an "edible defense system". Some of my co-workers and I have been bickering on and off about the new "No Eating At Your Desk During Working Hours" policy my boss has recently adopted. (She claims that snacking while working adversely affects productivity. We secretly suspect it's because she herself is on a diet, and wishes to eliminate some temptation. ) For half of the year, business is relatively slow and calm-paced, and I can go all day without snacking between meals. But during the busy season, the drawer in my desk which is normally stocked with tea bags and chewing gum rapidly fills with ginger snaps, plantain chips, string cheese, and other snacks. It seems that the more stress I'm under, the more likely I am to get a serious case of the munchies.

Depression is another isue for me when it comes to emotional eating. Sometimes, when I'm down, I'll crave a big bowl of pasta, some chocolate, and some red wine to soothe my mood. Other times, when I'm really ed up, I won't eat for days, or if I do, it's merely subsistence with no enjoyment whatsoever. When I finally snap out of the funk, I'm ravenous and overwhelmed with cravings, and go on an all-out eating binge. And that just makes me depressed all over again!

So, have others of you noticed a pattern between what and how much you eat, and the seasons? In summer, I have much less of an appetite than in winter. I know that this is due largely in part to biological factors, but a lot of it has to be psychological. It also doesn't help matters much that late winter and early spring are the busiest times for me at work!

I think I will try having a go at the food diary that Azahar and Kelli have suggested. I think it could be very helpful to keep track of the patterns of how I feel when I eat certain things, and how I feel afterward. I think it might also be helpful to keep track of how I feel when I get the urge to binge and purge. As much as the attitude that certain foods are a reward or a comfort can be harmful, I think that feeling guilty about eating, and enjoying it, is just as bad.

This discussion is already proving helpful to me. Thank you all!

Good luck with it, hope you find it useful and enlightening (in every sense ).

I definitely have success with weight loss that varies with the season - usually spring/summer is the best time for me (after my birthday is out of the way, December and January are terrible diet months). Maybe because I am optimistic about the year to come but also because as the weather improves my mood picks up too. I just try not to put anything back on during autumn/winter when I start to crave stodgy, comforting, sticks-to-the-ribs foods.

Am having some problems at work at the moment and I don't feel much like eating - this is so much the opposite of my normal response that I don't know what to make of it.