h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My sister is buying a laptop, and I wonder if there are any brands/shops etc to avoid, how much would be a reasonable price and so on?

Thanks in advance

I always ask the same thing of people who are about to buy a laptop...


Do you actually need a laptop?

If you're going to use it in one fixed location for 6 months of the year and then move it to a second fixed location for six months of the year (the case of most students), you're better off buying a desktop!

In fact, for the price of a laptop you can buy _two_ desktops (of similar configuration) and nowadays, with the size and capacity of USB key-fobs (not to mention G-mail accounts), you can transfer data easily between the two.

Laptops are:
- Expensive,
- Fragile,
- Easily stolen,
- Not as user-friendly or ergonomic as desktops,
- Good ways of starting fires if they're powered by SONY-built "made in china" batteries.

The _only_ advantage of a laptop is if you're using it on the move... And even then - they're a pain in the neck when you're half way through a four hour train journey and the battery conks out!

I concur with that. Using a laptop as your main PC is asking for upper limb disorders, neckache and getting the thing nicked. To use a laptop regularly you still need a seperate keyboard and mouse, and probably an external monitor. Of course, you can unplug it from that lot and use it n the move but is that really going to be an issue that often?

Some trains have power points for laptops these days. I've never found myself sitting at one when I needed it, though.

I think they're fairly resilient these days. I've had Compaq, Toshiba, FSC and EI-System brands over the years and haven't had fragility problems. They have limited upgradability though, of course.

Well, probably she would. She kinda PC-illiterate, but I think she'd have to use it in school (she's a teacher, not a student) as well as at home. Although she would like to be able to use it in the kitchen as well as the living room., but I'd imagine a memory stick would make taking it to school unnecessary. Probably.

>>Using a laptop as your main PC is asking for upper limb disorders, neckache and getting the thing nicked. To use a laptop regularly you still need a seperate keyboard and mouse, and probably an external monitor. Of course, you can unplug it from that lot and use it n the move but is that really going to be an issue that often?<< Roymondo

>>The _only_ advantage of a laptop is if you're using it on the move...<< Whisky

Well, yes that is the point of having a portable computer. However people use them more than the scenario you describe. My only computer is a mac powerbook. I *frequently* move it in the house depending on what else I am doing, what room is heated or sunny, or if I want to print off the large printer that I don't want in my living room.

I also take my laptop on holiday (music, dvds, email, h2g2), and when I have to travel for work.

I use my mac for at least several hours every day. My last laptop I used with external keyboard and mouse. I got neck and arm pain from extended use until I put the laptop so the screen was at eye level. However I now use the powerbook on a table in the living room with me sitting on the couch. I find that I tend to change my position much more often than when at a desk and so have no problems with RSI (unless I overdo it, which is much rarer these days, and if I was regularly doing alot of straight out typing I'd go back to an external keyboard. There is no need for an external screen).

If your worried about a laptop getting nicked then you can buy a laptop lock. I don't bother as I don't leave it visible in the car and I'm not in the city very much. I am careful though, much more so than anything else I own.


Pedro I can't really answer your questions unless your sister is looking at macs (in which case she has a choice of ibooks or powerbooks and that depends on what she is using the computer for). Macs are more expensive than other laptops, but you get considerably more bang for your bucks. Apple give education discounts.

Meant to say too that laptops are considerably quieter than desktop PCs (although there is alot of variation even amongst laptops).

Kea - I'm not arguing that in certain circumstances a laptop is an excellent piece of kit... But there aren't _that_ many people who use them that way...

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen conversations on this board along the same lines, where someone needs a computer in two different places (students being the prime example) and will actually _never_ use it outside of those two places.

In those situations, whilst most people think immediately of buying a laptop, it's not necessarily the best solution, nor the most cost effective...

Ok, buy a reasonably powerful laptop and you can work in the Garden or move rooms... and you'll not get that much change out of £800 (if you're lucky)

You can shop around for a couple of similarly spec'd desktops and get them for between £600 and £700 the pair

All I try and do in these cases is ask people if that extra money - simply for a little increased mobility, is worth the inherent disadvantages of a laptop.

One other possibility for people who use computers at home and at work for the same thing is the way we work nowadays...

In our company - all our 'home' pcs can be connected to the work network via a VPN - so I can sit at home in the evening and open up a window in which I'm actually working on my computer in the office - with all the software and documents I have installed on it there.

With a decent broadband connection you hardly notice that the keyboard and screen in front of you is actually operating a computer that could be hundreds of miles away.

(The other advantage of that is that you save on software licences of course).


Oh, and as to laptop theft - locks on laptops aren't that effective when some kid runs past you on Waterloo station and rips the laptop bag off your shoulder... It always amazes me that people are quite happy to wander around in public with a bag casually hanging from their shoulder with "STEAL ME - I'M WORTH HUNDREDS OF QUID!!" written on the side!

<> (Roymondo)

Um, no. You wouldn't *need* these things - that would simply be up to personal preference. Noggin uses his laptop exclusively (meaning he doesn't use our desktop PC) and he doesn't have any of these extra things. And after two years he hasn't developed any neck problems or upper limb disorders.

Since having the laptop as well as the PC these past two years, if I now had to choose only having one I would go with a laptop, even though we never take our laptop out of the house. For personal preference, if I was *only* using a laptop, I'd opt for a separate mouse. I don't see why a separate monitor would be necessary, but as kea pointed out, if a lot of typing had to be done on a regular basis, I might also opt for a separate keyboard.

It's just very convenient and comfortable to be able to use a computer in different rooms - for example, Nog can take the laptop into our spare room to use when I am teaching in the livingroom where the PC is set up. It's also great for watching dvd's in bed, and also spending lazy Sunday mornings in bed answering emails, hootooing or blogging, reading the online news, etc.

It's also nice to be able to sit on the sofa with the laptop and not always have to be sitting at a desk.

In other words, a laptop is just much more versatile than having a big PC unit set up in one room.

<> (Whisky)

I don't think this actually the case anymore. Noggin's cost about that much two years ago but we've seen recently that similar laptops (with wide screens, which Nog doesn't have - much nicer for watching films) are being offered for much less than that now.

Also, if or when repairs are needed it's much easier to take your laptop into the shop than lug in a big PCU box.

Ideally it's best to have one of each. But as I said, if I only could have one option now I'd definitely go with a laptop.



az

<> (kea)

I've never noticed either our laptop or PC being noisy at all. Though I did once have to get a fan in the desktop PC cleaned and oiled when it started making a racket - took just a few minutes. But in general the PC doesn't make any noticable noise at all.


az

<> (Whisky)

I don't know what a VPN is. Why couldn't a laptop also be connected in this manner?


az

I don't know what a VPN is. Why couldn't a laptop also be connected in this manner?

VPN - geekspeek (Virtual Private Network)

It could be - the point I was trying to get across wasn't that a laptop isn't useful - it was that one of the arguements people often use for buying a laptop in the first place is that they need the data in two different places... With high speed internet access nowadays you _can_ have access to data stored on one machine from absolutely any other machine without having to move the computer.

The pricing advantage of buying two desktops instead of a single laptop would be rather nullified if one were to buy a single desktop _and_ a laptop.

I have a laptop at home, because I like the minimal space needs.

Try out a couple for key placement! I find that some special keys move a little between different keyboards - I have to look in different places for the < key on work external keyboard, work laptop and home laptop. (Backspace, home/delete, arrows etc aren't always standard placed)

Also, do look (listen!) for fan noise- my work one is very quiet, the home one is quite noisy.

<> (Whisky)

I guess that would again come down to personal preference. We saw a rather good looking wide-screen Compaq laptop on sale awhile ago for about 500 euros (about 350 pounds). For home use we wouldn't need anything more than this and the wide-screen would make watching films in bed much more pleasant.

az

Just to stress something here...

I am not _anti_ laptop - with the exceptions that I personally find them less comfortable to use, specifically for 'office work' than a decent desktop setup (smaller screens, fiddly keyboards, etc).

If someone _wants_ a laptop - good on 'em, I'm not going to slag them off for it - and I'm not trying to have a go at anyone who owns one.

I'm simply offering an alternative that many people don't think of.

The setup I'm used to has enormous quantities of memory, an ergonomic keyboard, trackball and three separate 17" screens... So, as you can imagine, going from that to a migit keyboard and one 15" screen is a bit of a culture shock to say the least.

When I mentioned upper limb disorders etc I should point out that as a union caseworker I'm quite up pon this stuff. Yes, many people use laptops without any apparent problems, but if you compare the way laptops are used to the way you_should_set up a PC workspace...

I use a laptop but when I bought it it was as a second PC - I didn't know that my ex-flatmate had thrown my desktop PC away. There's so much gunk hanging off it that it really isn't very portable! (see the related Ask thread...)

I've no problem with laptops but they seem to have become the first option for many people when a desktop PC could be a better bet.

"I think she'd have to use it in school (she's a teacher, not a student ) as well as at home. Although she would like to be able to use it in the kitchen as well as the living room"

It sounds like a laptop would probably be a good idea. Whisky is right about VPNs, but I imagine they're difficult to set up? Especially for the PC-illiterate, which you say she is. The ergonomic factors are down to personal taste, mostly. But you *definitely* don't get as good value for money with a laptop. Because laptops are smaller, the hard disks have to be smaller - so they're slower with less capacity. Smaller hard disks are also more expensive than large-capacity ones. There isn't space for good graphics cards either (though I suspect this isn't required in her case).


"I can't really answer your questions unless your sister is looking at macs (in which case she has a choice of ibooks or powerbooks and that depends on what she is using the computer for)"

You're a little bit out of date. The iBooks and PowerBooks have been replaced with so-called MacBooks, which use Intel processors (which does mean they can run Windows).

"Macs are more expensive than other laptops, but you get considerably more bang for your bucks. Apple give education discounts."

Good point: look out for educational discounts, whatever you're buying.

As an example of the price, students and teachers can get a MacBook for £704, which includes a dual-core Intel processor and a built-in webcam - 512MB RAM, 13" widescreen, 60GB hard drive, built-in WiFi and Bluetooth connection gadgets. And that's the cheapest you'll get a Mac laptop.

Thanks everyone. I don't think a Mac is what she's looking for, just something cheapish (under £500) that she can prepare a lesson on, then print it out or whatever at school. VPN's are *way* out of her league, btw.

On a related note, does powerpoint come as standard, or would she have to buy it? If so, how much would it cost, or could she download a version instead? I'll let her know about educational discounts as well, thanks.

Openoffice can do Powerpoint files: http://www.openoffice.org/index.html

and it's free.

And it's legit, and just as good as the official thingy? I take it you've got to join before you can download stuff, yeah?