h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

We are not alone.
Unless a whole lot changes:
The implications will be a new, "Universal Plan to Rule" whom ever is out there.

I realise that it hasn't been proven, but Europa is widely belived to have liquid water flowing deep below its ice.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

"But as far as we know (with our limited science) it doesn`t exist in liquid form anywhere else in the known universe"

exactly, we can't know this and so it is futile to suggest that life does not exist outside our world...

And how, even with our limited science, can we know water doesn't exist anywhere else in the known universe... what constitutes the known universe and how can any theory about the rest of the universe be considered anything more than pure conjecture until we have actually been there?

Yawn- unproven. Yes- is that because we haven`t been there yet? Just opinion then. In fact, no more than speculation- tinged with hope?

Speculation is what this whole thread is about! Look at the title!

Bornonthe... not gonna answer my question then? How can we 'know' water doesn't exist in the known universe...? I'm interested in the reasoning behind this...

Speculation is fine- until people start throwing around so called `facts` which are just opinion. Re-Read post 2, then re-read post 9. Unless or until you find a second planet that has life the first is unique!

Fair point.

I forgot about post 2.

Ever had that feeling you're being ignored?

Show us liquid water on any other planet than Earth and we can project countless worlds where it probably exists. Show me two I`ll except thousands but show me only one...

Well, I have to say that as a non-believer and general all round cynic, I would probably be extremely happy if there was some proof of a higher power. Probably. Assuming it wasn't one of the "nuke 'em all and pack 'em off to hell" types.

As for aliens. It would be interesting if we got to meet some, but I think that any sort of meaningful contact is extremely unlikely within our lifetimes. It could be that life is a very rare occurance. It could be that FTL travel is impossible. It could be that intelligent life wipes itself out fairly quickly. It could be that the alien ambassador gets swallowed by someone's pet gerbil, or that the first notice we get is some weird message about a hyperspace bypass...

As for humans being the dominant species. Well, we may be at the top of the food chain, but in terms of impact on the environment, biomass, survival chances, adaptability excetera, we're probably thrashed into nothingness by a myriad of "lower" species, starting with cockroaches. Sometimes I wonder about intelligence as well. Humans are running along the edge of a razor by comparison.

To be honest, I think our best chance of alien contact is some sort of virus. Optimistic aren't I?

I think that is a nice, realistic point of view. Too many people apply meaning to the universe, contact with aliens may not suddenly make everything OK. The truth is, we always want a higher power to exist - it takes away any responsibility we might have.

"Show us liquid water on any other planet than Earth and we can project countless worlds where it probably exists. Show me two I`ll except thousands but show me only one..."

Sorry Bornonthe, but I think this is a ludicrous position to take... first though, you have not explained how, even with our limited science, we 'know' there is no other water in the known universe... I'd like to know if any eminent scientists have been able to prove this with anything other than theoretical equasions and conjecture... and if so, why are space programmes across the globe willing to spend money and research time to check out Europa?

Why ludicrous, considering our ability to see other worlds (so far only by detecting gravitational effects on their stars) is quite limited it is impossible to show you... but your argument takes the line that 'if I can't see it it's not there...' Wel, not having X-Ray vision, I presently am unable to view the path that runs outside my house... does this mean there can be no people currently walking along this path? I know people exist, I've seen them, much like we know liquid water exists, but as I have neither the means or technology to see through walls, I can only conclude that no-one is out there...

I have no problems with the existence of aliens, and it does not alter my belief in existence of God. I do not not have a narrow faith that believes that humans are the only created race in the universe. The Bible should not be literally read and is a reflextion of the attitudes of the people at the time. The bible is written in symbolic language.

JFA

I said " as far as we know- it doesn`t exist!" Do you know different? Or are you guessing?
You think that because something exists in one place that it MUST exist elsewhere? Based on what logic? You think my logic is flawed or ludicrous because you don`t agree?

Also I am a believer in Jediism, I do not have a conventional belief. God/the Force whatever you want to call it is different to everyone person on this planet so it will be different to non-terrans. My faith reflects how I view myself to world as whole and I how connect to the universe. I do not have this him up there view of religion/God. I see that everything all living things are connected to each other and to the universe as well.


JFA

True, I don't agree, but you have provided nothing to convince me otherwise... or at least allow me to consider that possibility.

Absolutely, I am guessing... but my premise is 'if we can't see it it 'might' be there' , whereas your position says 'if we can't see it it 'isn't' there... yes, I do think this logic is flawed...

Jedi, what I was suggesting is... erm, okay, let me put it this way... I don't beleive in God. I don't think he exists or that Jesus was his son, although I do accept the historical perspective that there was a man called Jesus who started the Christian faith. However, if God or Jesus were to reveal themselves to the world in an undeniable fashion, I would have to reconsider these views... I don't beleive for a moment this will ever happen, but hypothetically, my views would have to change if it did and I'd have to reassess my value and belief systems...

If alien intelligence was able to provide similar incontravertable evidence of the non existence of God... ie, they could show you the history and nature of the universe and it proved beyond any doubt there is no such thing as Him... would you also have to undergo a similar re-assessment of your values...?

Bornon: "Show us liquid water on any other planet than Earth and we can project countless worlds where it probably exists."- There is strong evidence to suggest water once existed in liquid form on Mars in very large quantities.

And there is new evidence to suggest there is still water there: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_water_story_000620.html

Is `Star Wars` written in a symbolic language too? Or just a commercial one?

Oops, sorry Jedi... missed your last post... just replace the Word God with your own beliefs...