h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Has anyone here used the YIKES button? If so. What's it like?

I've used it a few times. It's not as exhilarating as you've been led to believe.

Why is comparing a leader to a flower demeaning to homosexuals? And if we have to stop using terms referring to mental illness as pejoratives, then what do you propose we use in their place?

Political correctness is the bane of society. Soon we'll be so afraid of offending anyone that no one will ever say anything. Then the entire world will be like Britain.

I know it's rather Politically Correct to worry about this, but couldn't you use words like "jerk" or "nincompoop?" I assume there are not many entire classes of people that would take offense at those terms?

Or we could stop using insults at all? These things aren't bad enough to moderate, but what we're talking about here are fundamentally insults.

"Why is comparing a leader to a flower demeaning to homosexuals?"

Well, for example, the word "spade" is synonomous with shovel, but it's also an insult to an African American. You could claim that you were joking about a shovel, but most of us would understand. Anyone who would call another person a "pansy" is probably not thinking of a flower. They're talking about a homosexual man, with a loaded word that carries an implication of all homosexuals being inferior.

Anyhow, sorry to be sensitive, but if you had ever sat up for a few nights in a row with a person alternately crying and talking and screaming for the voices to shut up, get them on medication, and see what it does to them when people crack jokes about the mentally ill, you might be sensitive too.

But the terms "jerk" and "nincompoop" unfairly marginalize the socially challenged and the differently educated.

"Spade" isn't referring to the shovel, it's the end of "Black as the ace of...", so there's no mistaking its meaning. "Pansy," however, does refer to the flower, and so it can refer to any male that is behaving in an effeminate manner. Not all effeminate men are gay, nor are all gay men effeminate.

"And if we have to stop using terms referring to mental illness as pejoratives, then what do you propose we use in their place? "

Blatherskite, the problem i have with using mental illness as a perjorative is when its based on ignorance (which is fairly often).

there was a thread recently with the title "if a pyscho with multipull personallitys threatens suicide should the police handle it as a hostage situation???"

F19585?thread=247101

what that does is link psychosis, multiple personality, suicide, and probably violence. its a public misconception that those things are inherently linked in any way and it reinforces the huge ignorance the public has about what mental illness is. this damages the culture as well as making life more difficult for people with severe mental illness.



i also had a bit of a problem with this post -

"There have been a few researchers on h2g2 with very strong religious views which make them completely obnoxious and offensive. Whether you would describe them as nutters or not is open to debate, but they certainly seem to show all the signs of mental illness. These people have been put on "pre-moderation", which means that every single thing they post to h2g2 is checked first to see is it offensive before appearing. So you won't see any of their more offensive postings, they've all been hidden."


while its possible that the researchers referred to do in fact have some kind of mental illness, its more likely that certain behaviour is being linked with m/i which is again not true. strong religious views and obnoxious and offensive postings aren't in the diagnostic and statistical manual (DSM4) used by those labelling mental illness.


call obnoxious posters nutters if you want. just make sure you can differentiate between that and a diagnosable mental illness.


and if you are still wondering about the PC stuff, its because people with mental illnesses still face huge amounts of prejudice. this makes it much more difficult for them to stay well. even if you don't care about that, think about the impact on society plus all the extra costs, of mental illness being exacerbated in that way.

You can try to rationalize how the word "pansy" is innocent, but like all of these loaded words, it carries many meanings, and we all know what you really mean. A person could use the same kind of rationalizations to claim they were innocently calling a friend with a striped shirt a "c**n" or something absurd like that. "I just meant that you were a friendly animal who digs through garbage cans." They won't believe it either.

Let me put it another way.

Don't worry about being politically correct. People shouldn't treat these terms with care based on whether it will tarnish their image as "politically correct". People should treat these terms with care based on whether they want people to see that they're inconsiderate, disrespectful a*****es.

"call obnoxious posters nutters if you want. just make sure you can differentiate between that and a diagnosable mental illness."

Good points, kea. I would put it a little differently: "Call obnoxious posters nutters or 'mentally ill' if you want to reveal how ignorant you are about real mental illness."

In the case of the hostage subject, I don't suppose you're taking a common joke just a bit too seriously? That never happens in online interaction, does it?

You're saying that if you use pejoratives referring to mental illness, you perpetuate the negative stereotypes and make it more difficult for those with real illnesses to cope and recover.

So you call someone a crackhead instead, only that creates the same problem for drug users who are making a genuine effort to deal with what is at least partially a medical condition.

So next you think of calling them a w*nker, but that demonizes a perfectly natural and healthy act, reinforces feelings of negativity and worthlessness for those who are alone, and makes it difficult for one who has turned it into an obsessive, addictive behavior to cope and recover.

So you turn to calling them a nazi, only that demeans the poorly educated, through no fault of their own, who have simply been misled by leaders with misdirected anger.

In which case we're left with two alternatives:

1) Never say anything remotely bad about anyone, anywhere, at any time.

OR

2) Quit being such a bunch of tight-asses.*



* - This is not intended to demean those who, for perfectly legitimate medical reasons, and through no fault of their own, have difficulty with regular bowel movements.

No, you can call them an ass.

Or a hoser.

Or a jaxy.

*wanders in late*

I believe only brave folks talk to me! I'm apparently quite damaging to some researchers!!!

"Never say anything remotely bad about anyone, anywhere, at any time."

Reductio ad absurdam. If you can't see the difference between calling someone a "w*nker" and teasing the mentally ill, then by all means, prove you're not a "tight-ass" by shooting your mouth off anywhere in any way you prefer.

Can we agree about racial insults? You seemed to agree that "spade" should be avoided, or at least that a person cannot weasel their way out of that insult, because "there's no mistaking its meaning." I think "pansy" is another word whose meaning few people would mistake. Yes, it's literally a flower, but spade is literally a shovel and a symbol on playing cards, and yet we all know the other meanings that those words carry. If you can see that racial insults are worthy of condemnation, then why do you defend homophobic insults and jokes stigmatizing the mentally ill? Are there any insults that people should object to, or would you defend racial insults the same way? Maybe if we can't call a person a "spade," then that's the same slipperly slope leading to "never say anything remotely bad about anyone, anywhere, at any time."

We're not going to jail people who act like that, and we don't even need to yikes their ignorant posts, as far as I'm concerned. We just need to give them the respect they've earned: none.

If your going to insult someone then make it clever. Put some effort in. How about if you can't make the effort then don't bother.

Eliminates the need for single word quips

Well, everyone I know on here, especially those I've met in real life, at meets, mainly, are all nutters. and I mean that in the nicest possible sense, as a term of endearment, not an insult.

What about the term "n****r"? Coloured people use this word to describe each other - indeed it can be in an affectionate way like you would call someone mate. However when a white person uses the phrase it is derogatory. Double Standards. In the same vain many coloured people I know use the term "whitey" when speaking to white friends, and they are expected to take it on the chin. Call them a "n****r" back and you're likely to get into all sorts of trouble.

I am in no way racist and have many friends of different creed and religion to myself. I'm just making an observation but PC is taken much too far these days. I agree there'll soon be a point when we'll be unable to say anything to anyone if continues in the way it is doing.

thats based on the assumption that prejudice against white people can be equated with racism against blacks. i don' t think its valid to do that for incredibly obvious (well to me anyway) reasons.

the word n****r has different meaning depending on who uses it, for sure. i have no problem with this.

its not a double standard. its a reflection of the reality that we still live in an incredibly racist (homophobic, sexist, elitist, normalist culture)

its fantastic that people of colour have reclaimed a word that has been used to harm them. lesbians have done the same with dyke, gays with queer, pagans with witch etc.

as long as homophobic bullies use queer as a perjoritive, gays will use it as a reclaiming of power.


i really don't understand what the problem is with all this. the base line is its about respect and compassion.

with the mental health issue i also feel like there was an opportunity here to learn some things, but some people seem more interested in using antiPC rhetoric to support their supposed right to be either ignorant and rude, or discriminatory.


*goes off to contemplate the art of clever insults*

“I am in no way racist and have many friends of different creed and religion to myself. I'm just making an observation but PC is taken much too far these days.”

i agree that in some situations attempts at political correctness become convoluted. but in fact most of the examples of this come via the media and i don’t trust that the incidence or extent is as high as is being said. i don’t come across it that much in RL.




“there'll soon be a point when we'll be unable to say anything to anyone if continues in the way it is doing.”

i totally disagree with this.

i fell pretty relaxed about using words like queer, dyke, bitch, crazy, cripple etc because i have moved in those cultures enough to know how and when its appropriate to use those words. as a white person, i don’t feel comfortable using n****r because its totally outside of my sphere, but i can imagine non-blacks who *get* it, using that word in the appropriate context. (i’m talking about non-prejudicial use here).

i think that some of the people who are unhappy with being challenged about prejudicial use of those kinds of words, feel that way because they are unfamiliar with the culture. i also know plenty who are racist, homophobic, ignorant, bigotted etc.

i also think that people who have had to look at their own oppression have a much better understanding of what language is and how it can be used to harm or heal.

"If you can't see the difference between calling someone a "w****r" and teasing the mentally ill... "

Well, I think calling people w@nkers is offensive to those with sex-obsession, a genuine psychiatric disorder. It's all a matter of perception.

B

I was speaking purely from my own experience. I've obviously not moved in quite as diverse a circle as yourself. I didn't want anyone to think I was refuting what they had said, I was just merely throwing in my .

fair enough, Alkland.


B. - i'm not sure if you are being serious, but just in case you are - for me its not the word thats the problem, its how it gets used. w****r doesn't refer to someone who is mentally ill, though i agree it wouldn't be a good thing to call someone with a sex addiction unless you knew them well and knew when it was ok to use.


"It's all a matter of perception."

absolutely. and one of my points is that most people using mental illness as a perjorative are doing so from an ignorant perception of what mental illness is and how people are affected by thoughtlessness around that.

"That bloke's a nutter! OI! NUTTER!" I used to love that advert.


I've never heard of spade being used as an insult. My friends call each other "spanner" when one of us is being a bit thick - are we being insulting to those that are mentally retarded? No, I don't regard people that are mentally retarded to be any less valuable members of society, my friend may just be being a bit more stupid than usual - am I still insulting the mentally retarded? - none of you could say that you've never referred to anybody as being a bit stupid at some point in your lives.

As for "Pansy" - I don't associate that term with homosexuality, we use it in the same line as "big girl's blouse" when one of us is being overly sensitive about something - are we now insulting ladies with a weight problem??

There is such a thing as over-sensitivity. If you thought about it hard enough, you could make any nickname/insult/term of endearment offend some portion of society. Why waste your time trying to be offended??

There are people that Choose to be ignorant and use these words as insults, you (I) soon recognise such people and don't bother with them. If somebody's so low that they feel the need to insult me, that person simply isn't worth the happy time that would be missing from my life if I chose to take offence and be angry/sad.

I'm frequently called a nutter, because I do things that make people laugh, so it's a good thing to me!

For some really good insults I'd suggest F19585?thread=197502 - the blog is a bit long though, you could just skip to the end and insult away!

Queegle