h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hopefully not! Anyway where are the PARENTS through all this misbehaviour?Also if you know that fireworks are being sold to underage bozo's report the shop that does it.

Ban all fireworks apart from local charity evented ones where the organisers have to have a licence and who's planning has been overseen by the local fire service and necessary health and safety organisations.No sale of fireworks to ANYONE in the community UNLESS they have said licence.

Incog.

"Does anyone share my view that fireworks should be contained to organised displays only?"

I'm beginning to agree with this. The net result of fireworks being on sale in shop is that stupid children run around letting them off. Since we have a stupid law in this country that states that children under a certain age are somehow not capable of committing a crime properly and are, therefore, not actually punished for the vast majority of them they are free to do this at will.

Banning the sale of fireworks to the under 16s doesn't work as any fool will tell you.

Stupid government posters saying things like "all the hip kids don't throw fireworks" don't work (or words to that effect, whatever they don't work and are a waste of money).

Telling stupid children that fireworks are dangerous and could burn half their face is a waste of time. Children only notice danger after it has done them harm.

So basically, the only solution would be to ban the sale of fireworks in local shops. With the efficiency of the Scottish and UK governments, expect it to be debated in the next 10 years. Or when a toddler is maimed when a gang of slack-jawed neds stick a banger down his trousers.

Fireworks are obviously dangerous in irresponsible hands, but so are a lot of things. Knives, cars etc.

I like organised displays myself, because you get better fireworks there. However, I think it would be rather sad if we were no longer able to light a few fireworks in the garden for our children. It's one of the joys of childhood and part of the Bonfire night tradition.

I also like the recent trend towards lighting fireworks at midnight on New Years Eve. I think it's nice to see rockets going up all over the town at once.

I would be quite happy to see bangers disappear, though.

I think I'm more inclined to your way of thinking, Cleo, than the "ban the lot" approach, although I have some sympathy with the arguments. We have a bunch of students in the road that backs on to ours who think it's big & clever to let off bangy things every half hour through the day in a force 8 gale, with no idea of where the things are going to end up.

I would feel deprived if I couldn't have responsible fireworks in the back garden - had some great ones for my 40th (birthday's 3rd Nov so it more or less coincides with bonfire night, before anyone complains about me being anti-social!) and I don't think local councils would be too happy about having to licence bonfire parties - who pays for the licencing? And there would be a peak workload once a year so they'd probably have to bring in extra staff. And how would they decide whether any particular application should get a licence or not. You could refuse if there had been problems at a previous event, but in that case it's probably too late and/or they may have been taught a lesson (ever the optimist, eh?!)

I think the age should be raised to 18 and it should be made an offence to supply to or procure for anyone younger. I know there's then an enforcement problem but it might give weak-willed parents a bit more clout. And roll on the ban on bangers.

Looking at last years statistics there appear to be between 143 and 266 people who were more seriously injured, requiring at least a stay in hospital (depending if none or all of the people, where their progress was not recorded, stayed in hospital or not). Altogether there were 1,362 injuries all together and as has been mentioned before there were no deaths.

The saftey issue would be a whole lot easier to swallow if there were not so many other pursuits out there that were a lot more dangerous. I could find no break down for last years seriously injured (needing a stay in hospital) people in road accidents, but altogether there were 320,310 people injured, including 3,243 deaths in 1998! You might want to start here, or maybe smoking (120,000 deaths in the UK a year, including 17,000 children under 5 admitted to hospital due to passive smoking!).

I would prefer that none of them were banned, people should be free to make their own choices, but do not say it 'is for the children' if you do not rip the cigarettes from peoples' mouths as you walk by them, vandalise each and every private car you come upon and, upon arriving home, you write numerous letters to your MP and to journalists asking for a ban on these activities (whilst you are asking the journalists to ban smoking, make sure you mention banning alcohol as well, that will definately get them on your side ). These actions would do more for your safety, and childrens saftey than any ban on fireworks.

If you want to ban them because the bright lights and noise startles or frightens you, or you do not like them, or the smell irritates you, OK, I can accept that, but unless you are doing all the actions mentioned above then please do not say it is about saftey, because there are much bigger safety issues out there. Until later....
BCNU - Crescent

You're missing one crucial point there - cars have a useful function.

Admittedly, cigarettes and alcohol don't really. Neither do fireworks.

Sure, they can all make people happy (or unhappy), but they don't provide something that would be inconvenient not to have. Cars are hardly irreplaceable, but they have become something of an adjunct to the modern lifestyle. Not that I'm saying accidents caused by them are more acceptable, but the approach may have to be different.

And we licence car drivers...

Crescent,

I'm a libertarian and I take banning *nothing* lightly. My point was, if someone allows fireworks to get into the hands of children then they inflict these (at the end of the day) dangerous weapons on others. Deliberately.

People drinking and smoking don't do that. I'll treat any comments that smoking in the same room as someone is equivalent to firing a rocket at them with the respect it deserves.

Actually, I shouldn't have said "ban the sale" just restrict it more. Allowing children to get their hands on fireworks is a serious business and the government has pretty much stopped pretending that it's policies prevent this. They don't.

It's not just children who are the problem - there are plenty of irresponsible adults out there as well.

I'm quite happy to say I'd like to see the back of fireworks on open sale because of the nuisance that they cause me and my family. They keep me awake, they keep my wife awake, and despite me spending a fortune on pills and potions at the vet they absolutely terrify my dog (and before anybody asks - yes I clear up after him, no I do not allow him to go to the toilet where children may play, and no he does not bark at night).

I don't see why I should suffer constant loud noise in my home from teatime (a huge one has just gone off) until the middle of the night, and I don't see why my dog should live in terror, so I regard fireworks as an unacceptable intrusion and inconvenience, and for that reason I would like to see the sale of fireworks banned.

I have no problem at all with organised displays which actually take place in the week of Bonfire Night, or New Years Eve, or some other special occasion for that matter - my problem is with the constant nuisance caused by the effectively unrestricted sale of fireworks.

I do not accept the argument that it would be too difficult to license displays, or acceptable persons/organisations to provide displays. No doubt any such system would be imperfect, but we license all kinds of events and organisations for a variety of purposes - if there was a will to do it, a system could be devised.

But none of that alters the safety arguments. There is no doubt that cars and fags and booze cause far more injury and death than fireworks, even if you allow for the fact that those other activities are carried on throughout the year, but to argue that if we ban fireworks we should ban cars is specious. We might as well say that because we allow dangerous activities such as driving we should therefore allow duelling in public,or allow people to keep tigers as housepets. It's comparing apples and pears. If you want to argue for banning cars, smoking or alcohol, I think there are already threads here dedicated to that (there's at least one for smoking).

The misuse of fireworks which are purchased on open sale undoubtedly results in, let's be conservative, dozens of injuries annually. These are injuries which could be avoided if fireworks were restricted to organised displays, whilst still allowing for people to enjoy fireworks at those displays.

I'm still convinced, both for the simple, selfish (but perfectly valid) personal reasons I have set out, and for the general public good, that fireworks should not be on open sale to the public - not at any age.

For those of you looking to limit fireworks to 'organised displays'- I've been hit by fireworks three times- all three were at 'organised displays'- my father has done bonfire parties for 25 years- and no one has ever been hit.

In my experience, public displays are not always safe, and private displays are not always dangerous.

Fireworks are fun- they can be dangerous, buyt only if used incorrectly- we need better education, and the following of existing laws, not more pointless legislation. Since last year, the law in the UK has stated you need to be 18 to buy fireworks- that doesn't stop dodgy shops selling them to 13 year olds- so what on Earth makes you think that further laws will work any better than the ones we've got.

Keep fireworks on sale to all adults- they're great fun- just teach people to use them safely.

To those of you that complain about them 'disturbing the peace'- it's swings and roundabouts chaps- *not* having them would breach other people's rights to enjoy themselves. Live and let live, it's only for a few months a year, it brightens up the winter, and who said you had a right to peace and quiet anyway? Whoever they were, can you send them over her please, I'd like to stop the freight trains running all night.

"Keep fireworks on sale to all adults- they're great fun- just teach people to use them safely."

The problem is dim-bulb youngsters fighting pretend wars by throwing fireworks about. Teaching them to use them safely is a waste of time.

To which I can only say "oi! You, out of the gene pool!" - and the pillock that sold them you.

Actually, at one 'organised' display I went to, the organisers built handheld launchers for them out of tubes and sheet metal- that was on of the occasions I got hit- luckily I had thick jeans, and the only result was scorched trousers and a bruise. At another one, the left over denotators were thrown on the bonfire- never have I seen over-weight scout leaders move so fast

Just because a display is organised doesn't mean it's conducted in a safe manner...

And to the 'organisers' of those parties all I can say is, "Oi! You - out of the gene pool!" That's my point - fireworks should be in the hands of the responsible. The organisers of the parties you went to KerrAvon clearly weren't, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to organise them.

At the moment, any pillock can and does buy fireworks - whether for a display that they are patently unfit to organise, or to launch at passing buses and cars from home made launchers (don't drive around Miles Platting in Manchester at night at this time of year), or to throw at people in bus queues from passing cars, or to put through people's letterboxes, or just to let off in the middle of the night and keep everybody awake.

I may not have a right to peace and quiet, but nobody else has the right to disturb my peace and quiet - and that of dozens of others. Let off one reasonably powerful banger and it is clearly audible throughout an entire housing estate. I'm not bothered if the family next door have a few fireworks for the kids on Bonfire Night, that's not the problem. But as long as fireworks are on sale to anybody who can proffer a £10 note they will be bought by people who aren't safe to be let out with a tube of Smarties.

I'm not arguing that fireworks should be banned, I'm not arguing that people shouldn't have the right to enjoy watching fireworks - I am arguing that we should make it a lot more difficult for idiots to get their hands on them. And that includes idiots who organise displays and then demonstrate that they're not fit to do so. I don't see that restricting the sale of fireworks to over eighteens, and not noticeably enforcing it, begins to have any effect on the situation at all.

The sign I saw in my local newsagent said it all

We are not able to sell fireworks to anybody "apparently" under 18 years of age.

Yet another call for some sort of identity cards in this country perhaps. If it works in the USA why can't it work here?

I am 36 and last time I was in the US I went into a bar and got 'carded'...I was well chuffed!!

Interesting how the original dates of the firefigher's strike, though not on the 5th, were over the weekends around the 5th.

29-31 October (suspended)
2-4 November (suspended)
6-14 November
22-30 November
4-12 December
16-24 December

The fireworks party organised within a group of friends of mine was moved away from during the strike; since that strike is suspended, it now back again (to clash with an h2g2 meet.)
As for safety - well the people who will be setting up the fireworks, I trust to be careful and safe (otherwise I wouldn't be going) and I and another trained first aider will be on hand for first aid, although we don't expect to be required. (This friend has a huge garden, nearly an acre, and a fire hose on the side of his house. We don't know why the firehose, but it's there, just in case.)

(I don't think it unreasonable to have fireworks on the weekends adjacent to the 5th, just not for weeks around.)

Re: scared dogs....there is hope http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2345939.stm

Well we bought our fireworks on Sunday, from Sainsbury's...I was surprised actually - by buying them on or before sunday (a fortnight before 5th november) we got 20% discount...surely encouraging people to buy fireworks far in advance of the event is a bad idea (I'm personally not happy about storing fireworks for more than a couple of days). I realise that sainsburys are just trying to make sure they shift their stock constantly (instead of all in one mad rush) but I still think in the case of fireworks it is irresponsible - they could allow you to order your fireworks in advance for a discount but only collect them on the day.

Also, if you buy lots and don't intend to use them before the actual day, then you could be breaking the law (see link I posted a while back in this thread)

Re PencilQueen's link, and for the information of other dog owners - I've got one of these - they are already available.

I'd popped into the vet to get some food for the cat (he's on a special diet - dodgy kidneys) and the vet asked how my dog and cat were - the subject of fireworks came up, and he told me about these dog appeasing pheromones. They've only just got them in, and I bought a machine (it's like a mosquito repellent machine - a plug-in heater dooberry with a bottle of whatever that screws into it). It cost me £18. It claims to give off a chemical which mimics that given off by lactating bitches, and to last for 4 weeks.

The vet made no claims, in fact I've been asked to let him know how the dog (he's a border collie cross, by the way) gets on with it. I have to say, he *does* seem quite a bit calmer. We have given up with normal tranquilisers - they just make him groggy and don't reduce the fear - and rely on herbal 'calming' tablets, which take the edge off.

Howerer even with these he normally disapears behind the settee at the first bang and lies there quivering in fear for hours, and it's a real job to coax him out. It's pathetic and depressing - he's normally so cheerful and playful. Taking him for a walk after dark is a complete non-starter (perhaps this will give a flavour as to one of the reasons I dislike fireworks so much).

With the machine plugged in he still hides, but he doesn't shake the same way, and if we get a bit of quiet we can persuade him to come out. I've even managed to get him to go for a walk during a lull (not at weekends) - it's a big help.

I'd still much rather he didn't have to suffer this, though.

"We are not able to sell fireworks to anybody "apparently" under 18 years of age.

Yet another call for some sort of identity cards in this country perhaps. If it works in the USA why can't it work here?"

The problem is not that they sell to underage kids. The problem is that they sell to people who supply them to/sell them to underage kids. Same way these kids get alcohol. The law simply does not work and everyone knows this.

Of course it doesn't work, it never has done. A kid 14, so get's his 16 year old mate to buy his fags, or his 17 but looks 18 mate to buy his fireworks and drink. We need better education, not laws, someone will always get around laws.