h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Could someone explain to me (in American English, please) the British school system from young 'un to doctorate? No matter how much Ab Fab/Fawlty Towers/BlackAdder/Dr. Who I watch, or Mapp & Lucia/PG Wodehouse/Joan Aiken/Roald Dahl I read, I still don't understand a bloody thing when it comes to Brits in school. Help!

OK, bear in mind I left College 2 years ago, so the whole system is probably different now.. here's roughly how it works.

Nursery School - For children aged under 5.

Primary School ( INfants and Juniors ) - Children from 5 - 11 split up into years, a bit like the American Grade system I think..
Year 1 - 5 - 6 yr olds
Year 2 - 6 - 7 yr olds
Year 3 - 7 - 8 yr olds
Year 4 - 8 - 9 yr olds
Year 5 - 9 - 10 yr olds
Year 6 - 10 - 11 yr olds

Comprehensive School ( Or Secondary School ) - Children 11 - 16, again split into years
Year 7 - 11-12 yr olds
Year 8 - 12-13 yr olds
Year 9 - 13-14 yr olds
Year 10 - 14-15 yr olds
Year 11 - 15-16 yr olds
Some have a 6th Form which is 16-17yr olds.
In years 10 and 11 you do GSCE's which are exam's can't remember what it stands for.

HIGHER EDUCATION
College - from 16yrs and older, anyone can go to college and do
A-levels, GNVQ's( General National Vocational Qualification ) NVQ's ( National Vocational Qualifications ), BTEC's ( dunno).
generally you spend 2-3 years here

Then people generally go on to University where you do Degree's and the kind of stuff you get paid loads for.
some people spend the rest of their lives doing this kind of thing.

I personally stopped after College, with 9 GCSE's and 3 A-Levels

Just watch the millions flock to contradict me.
I hope this is a help though

Wow! Cool! Thanks for the prompt reply. I see what confused me now: "college" and "university" are synonyms here in the US but seem to be two distinct levels in Britain. And 6th form has absolutely no corrolation over here. Cool! Thanks again!

Actually 'college' and 'university' are also synonymous in the UK. What 'cryptic' meant by college is actually what used to be called 'sixth form college'. Education is only compulsory to age 16 and therefore many schools only take pupils to this age. At 16 pupils take GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education). However to get into University you need 'A' (Advanced) levels and therefore many schools have a sixth form which is actually 2 additional years (17-18). Alternatively if you go to a school that stops at age 16 you can go to sixth form college to get your A levels. The word 'college' loosely refers to anything after compulsory education and therefore includes University, technical colleges etc. Britain used to have another category of college called a 'Polytechnic' which was like a vocational (rather than academic) type of University. However, Polytechnics were often thought of as second rate. Now all the old Polytechnics are called Universities so we have a lot more now.

To completely confuse things, some universities have colleges, such as Oxford and Cambridge, or London, but this systems vary greatly as well. At Oxbridge the colleges are barely more than halls, and have your tutor attached. At london, each college is a university in its own right, and have very little commen ground. And as if that wasn't bad enough, one is even called University College London, just to confuse foreigners!

And on top of that some secondary schools (usually private ones) are called colleges - for example 'Winchester College'.
Also to completely confuse matters, private schools are called 'public schools' and public schools are called 'state schools' and if anybody can tell me why this is I would be very grateful.

State schools are funded by the state, public schools funded by (technically) the public. Seeing as they're funded by the rich and snooty they should be called rich and sno(o/t)ty schools. Consider-themselves-better-than-the public schools?
A fact I wish to publicise is that ex-polytechnics (polyversities, whatever) teach you things you need to get a job. Universities teach you how to become a theoretician or researcher, NOT how to earn money in order to buy food to live. Bastards.

I think it is unfair to say that private schools are funded by the rich and snooty. In most cases they are funded by parents who work bloody hard to get some extra money so that their children can get a better education. Parents who do not want their children to have to go to an understaffed school with class sizes of 35, parents who do not want their children bullied and beaten up by the local rabble, etc etc. I am one of those parents and I do not consider myself to be rich and snooty at all, I just want the best for my children and I am willing to pay for it!

Oh, gosh guys! Thanks! Now I'm completely confused again!! But please continue, maybe I can catch up!

To confuse things even more, who remembers the eleven-plus exam? My sister took it but it was dropped the following year, so I missed out. I was in the first intake of girls into a school that used to take (some?) boys that passed the eleven-plus. Most of the pupils were fee-paying, although I understand that the fees were related to parental income. The only reason that I was able to go was that I was awarded a scholarship. The school was given a choice of turning comprehensive (that's base level state school, to the uninitiated) or going independent. It went independent, thank God!

As an ex-pupil of what became a private school who has known many ex-pupils of state schools, I agree that fee-paying schools give a better education. The school I went to was, and still is, known for having the best academic record in the city. The school my sister went to also used to have a good academic record, but this went to the wall when it turned comprehensive.

So, no, not all private schools are the preserve of the rich and snooty. I will always be grateful to the teachers of Bablake School, Coventry, for the effort they put into my education, even though I did duck out at 16!

My experience of comprehensives is the same. I passed eleven-plus and went to a very good grammar school from which I benefited greatly. However, in my fourth year the comprehensive system was introduced and my school went comprehensive. After that the school went completely downhill. All the good teachers left (probably to private schools) and the school became no better than any other school.
For the benefit of our American friend, British state schools were once divided into two types, grammar schools and secondary modern schools. Children were streamed at age eleven into either grammar or secondary modern. The eleven-plus examination was used to determine who should go to the grammar schools. The Labour government of the time decided that this system was divisive and wanted everybody to have an equal chance. To this end they abolished grammar schools so that all schools were then brought down to the level of the Secondary Moderns. This left only private (or independent) schools offering a superior education so where once everybody (no matter what their parents income) had the chance of a better education, now you have to pay! How this is less divisive I do not know.

Unfortunately the eleven-plus system was open to abuse. My husband was born and grew up in Studley, a village in Warwickshire. The nearest grammar school was in Alcester, a few miles down the road. It was noticeable that hardly anybody from Studley went to the grammar school, even if they had passed the eleven-plus. My husband's elder brother was one of those whose education suffered. Eventually the Studley parents had enough and went to see the head master about it (my mother-in-law was one). The head's attitude was 'Why should we bother educating your children. They'll only end up in the local needle factories.' (Redditch, another local town, was the centre of the needle-making industry at that time.) The head's attitude was self-fulfilling; if the children didn't get a good education, nobody else would employ them.

Fortunately for my husband and his brother, enough pressure was applied to halt (or at least reduce) this abuse. My husband went to the grammar school when he passed his eleven-plus, and his brother was transferred from a local comprehensive where his behaviour had deteriorated along with his education.

I aggree with you completly about parents wanting their children to have a better education at a private/public school and they are not rich snooty people but the bit you said about being bullied, There are bullies in all schools, and if you read some of the memoirs of people who attendend private/public school I think it is probably worse. (I might have spelt memoirs wrong, so sue me, I didn't go to private school)

Dear Researcher 6.14.86 As you can see our education system is a bit confusing but when it comes to private or state education tell me if I am wrong but don't you have private education in the US. If I was accepted into Yale, would I have to pay to attend or would It be paid for by the US Govenment. If the films I have seen are anything to go by I think I could retire on the cost of my education at Yale Univercity.

Umm....well. I passed the 11 plus and went to grammar school. They DO still exist in some counties, and there are 4 (2 boys, 2 girls) in the town where I live.
I have 2 children, and was very dissatisfied with the education provided at the local state school. As a result, I have gone back to work to earn enough money to fund the children's school fees, as they now attend private school.
Nothing would have given greater pleasure than for them to have been receiving an adequate state education, but I couldn't get them into any other state school nearby, (parent's freedom of choice over education is a misnomer). I HAD no choice - either I put up with my elder daughter being bullied and made miserable in the face of many attempts to resolve the problems, or I took them out of the state school they attended. That was quite apart from the poor educational standards and the lack of discipline.
I'm not snooty or rich, just desperate to ensure that my children receive the best education they can. It's unfortunate that I have to pay for it, but they only get one chance at being children and being happy at school.

And, just in case there's any opposing confussion, or for equal time or something, the US school breakdown:

Day Care: mostly before 4 years old, for two-income families, and sometimes until age 13 or so, as supplement. Mostly private and home-based caretakers.

Pre-K: a more recent addition, for ages 4-5.
Kindergarten:ages 5-6
the rest are straightforwardly numbered, from 1st to 12th, and sequential, of course.
In addition, grades 7-8, or grades 7-9 in some areas are considered Junior High School, and grades 9-12(10-12) are considered High School.
Any further education is through Colleges, and Universities, which are essentially just colleges with a lot more funding. These shcools are self-funded, which means you have to not only earn the privledge to attend, but you must pay through the nose to be able to accept said privledge.
Fortunately for the underprivledged (read most working Americans ) wanting to attend, many companies provide grants and scholarships, IF you fit in the right demographic, and the government will even sponser low-return student loans, of which 90% of those that graduatecompletely forget about after the graduation party, and regret their credit reports for the rest of their natural life.

You've spelt memoirs correctly, so don't worry. It is possible to get a good education at a comprehensive/secondary school, it's just that the teachers face an uphill struggle due to lack of resources and/or poor funding. I don't know if this causes the appalling attitudes and behaviour I've noticed in kids that go to or have been to these schools, or whether it just exacerbates it (nice long word, shouldn't show off). Mind you, I've known some kids from public schools that have been badly behaved and have had bad attitudes, so let's blame the parents. Ultimately, it's down to them no matter what they say.

Also keep in mind that all US schools including colleges/universities can be both "public" which is what we call anything run by governments and "private" which are run individually. And when we know the age of the person we're talking about, the question "are you still in school" refers to college/university, even though we just say school.

For primary and secondary schools (from kindergarten up through grade 12), public schools are "free", that is, paid for by tax money. Public schools are generally funded by local government property taxes, meaning that localities with wealthier people generally have better quality public schools. All public schools have to meet certain guidelines and get funding from the state government as well, and from the US government ultimately. Most minimum guidelines are set by states, though. And again, the quality is mainly going to vary by school district within the state. (School districts might encompass small municipalities or entire counties depending upon the state.) Whew. That ought to confuse you some more.

Oh, but I haven't talked about private schools yet. Private schools for primary and secondary education are independent institutions with students at these same age levels. Private schools charge tuition, which can be thousands of dollars a year. They often have entrance requirements and may reject substandard applicants. They might be affiliated with religious groups (Catholic schools are the most common.) And in many cases they are regarded to give a better quality of education than the public schools. In most cases they can at least give more personal attention because of their smaller size. Some schools may run the whole system from K-12. Others focus on certain years at either end.

For colleges/universities, there are also public and private institutions. In this case, public institutions are run by a state government agency, and indeed these often have the word "state" in their names (Ohio State University, Pennsylvania State University, etc.) These can be large (as in those two examples) or small. Now at this level of education, everyone pays, but with a public college/uni, you generally pay less tuition if you're a resident of the state which runs your institution. Public colleges are generally cheaper than private ones, even for out of state students, again because they are somewhat subsidized by the states. Note that the name of a state or city in the title does not make it a public school. The University of Pennsylvania, for example, is in fact private (founded by Ben Franklin, I might add.)

Most of the most famous universities are private. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. are all private. It costs a mint to go to the top private schools (probably approaching US$30,000 a year), but it's regarded as a good investment still, and there are low-cost loans and sometimes outright grants and scholarships available. It's generally harder to get into a private school, and they may or may not offer a better education. Some of these are even associated with religious organizations.

Speaking of years, the degree that most people have (bachelor's) is generally regarded as taking 4 years, though it often takes people 5 when they screw up, change majors, etc. In the US job market, this is often seen as a minimum for getting any kind of a decent job, although plenty of more labor-intensive jobs still exist for those without degrees, and you can sometimes still get away with it in the computer industry too. College is going to pretty much cost at least $5000/year anymore, I think, and can easily cost $15,000-$20,000. That's a lot of debt to pay back, especially considering that some people after getting these degrees still don't end up with jobs that pay that well.

There are also community colleges, which offer 2-year degrees and just simple certificate programs. Sometimes people go there and transfer that credit towards completing a 4-year degree at a bigger school. Saves some money sometimes. And there are techical/trade schools, which teach things that are still really trades and don't really need a degree, things like auto mechanics or hvac repair or such.

PS As I recall, the notion of the terms public and private when it comes to school are totally different in the UK.

Why do we have to have such a problem with the word public anyway? I mean, it means something totally different when we're talking about companies. A public company means it's traded on a stock exchange and you can buy shares in it, as opposed to a privately owned company, which is owned by a family, group of investors, etc.

I think you meant to say "…work bloody hard actually…"
It's the same as people who always travel by car because the buses are shit. Why are the buses so crap? It's the same with the education system, though thankfully it has a long way to go before it reaches the level of the transport system. With an increasing number of employers chucking in health plans á la the US to try and reverse the increasing trend of shorter-term employment the NHS might end up the same way.
"Local rabble?" Where are you from and where do you live that you can speak this way?