h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've been thinking about this and I'm starting to think that Israel and Palestine should be made the possessions of other States again. When they were under foreign control there was no problem. Israel has been pushing the Arabs. Sharrons statements at the Temple in Jerusalem were deliberately inflammatory. He wanted a race war and now he's got one. Unfortunately, it's impacting on the rest of the world. There are numerous people responsible for this. The American's whose p**s-poor "strategy" in the Middle East has made it "Most Likely Place to Cause Armaggeddon" since Central Europe circa 1951. The Israeli's who seemed to think that treating Arab's in their country as second-class citizens and, latterly, as vermin was a great way of easing regional tension. The Arabs, many of whom refuse to grant Israel even the right to exist and think that threatening a nation with extermination is a great way of making sure they treat Arabs in their country well. The British and French, who abandoned the region to American diplomacy sometime after WWII and then sat and twiddled their thumbs as the Israeli's and Arabs started killing each other (Only joining in the ill-advised Suez Canal situation, before being given a slap by the Americans and told to remember who calls the shots now)

When Britain gave up Palestine to the Israelis, we believed they could sort things out themselves. We were completely wrong. A multinational UN force should enter Israel and disarm both sides. The Arab terror groups should be hunted down and liquidated. Arab states that harbour them should be invaded if necessary. The Israeli Generals responsible for the targetting of Arab civilian buildings and civilians should be relieved of command and imprisoned. It should be made clear that the UN will not leave until it is confident that the country can rule itself again.

How's that for a War on Terrorism?

I admit I'm in a bad mood about all this, but I really can see no other solution to the problem. I think one needs to be found soon. It may one day be too late.

Restricting weapons sales, particulary US weapons being sold to Israel, might help too.

A UN force would probably prove more successful in providing peace than this current war. But, which countries would be willing to provide the soldiers, arms and money for such a war?

Hi Zagreb

Feeling abit jittery?

Sounds a decisive action plan. I'm going to smile all day at the thought of the UN disarming Israel.

Love Peanut xx

I agree I was a bit about the whole thing when I posted.

Thing is, I think my solution is the best one. All it needs is for the leaders of the Great Powers to show some backbone!

It is a plan.
Sounds better than some I've heard.

Wonder what they think over at 360?
I think I'll go find out.

I'm with you, we need backbone, some reason, some decisive (political)action.

My feeling is at the moment is that the suicide bombers are blowing the best chance yet for some sort of resolution that would be in their favour.

We need Blair to stand up to Bush, not stand shoulder to shoulder.

Love Peanut xx

"The nation that insists on drawing a broad line between
its fighting men and its thinking men will find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards"
Sir William Francis Butler
1838-1910
Possibly a paraphrase.

Wise words, Tonsils

I don't know if it will work. I think a lot of the founding of Israel had to do with Jewish terrorists harassing the British who occupied the land.

I doubt that there's a force on the planet that could move in and occupy Israel without the consent of the Israelis. They're tough well-armed fighters. I wouldn't want to try and force my way in there. I don't think there's anyone who could keep order short of the Romans .

.......................................................................My 1st posting here

History is cyclical isn't it? 2,000 odd years later (some more odd than others) and life in the Middle East is not vastly different from Caesars time.

Which mega*-power is going to risk what happened to the Romans? And for what long term gain?

Yet somethings are new to the cycle... Info for one, our ancestors scarcely knew what was happening in the next village... and what they didn't know didn't hurt them.

* sorry if this sounds odd, but out of respect to TR&FoRegPerrin, i reserve the word super for other things...

I wouldn't risk it. The Israeli's are probably the best soldiers in the world. If they can't handle it, any other nation would be foolish to.

I don't think the problem is that the Israeli's can't "handle it" it's that the methods they are using are spiralling the violence. They seem to be targetting non-military targets (they were firing on refugee camps today) in - depending on your view - an attempt to kill terrorists wherever they might be or just obliterating Palestinians until they give up through sheer exhaustion. Whatever, they're fighting like some third-world dictatorship rather than a civilised democracy. I think we should treat them the way they deserve to be treated.

No occupying army could maintian order in Israel. Even if an army could invade Israel no army could maintain order in a country with Palestian, not to mention Israeli, terrorists.

Warning: rant follows


We ignored them when they couldn't fight, we want to stop them when they do.

Like most conflicts on the planet, the Middle East mess has roots going back a long way.
The list of indicted would fill a book.
Cultural ignorance is irritating, especially in me, to me.
The more I learn about the situation, the less I know. You can't armchair a conflict without making a fool out of yourself. Which I am going to do right now.

The PC argument that all violence is bad, but some kinds are more permissable than others, particularly when it involves the oppressed against the oppressors, is flawed in that in order to subscribe to any form of PC thought in the first place, you have to have the leisure and the education to even consider thinking about what is correct as opposed to what will feed you, pay your bills or protect your family.

The Arab league's PC is whatever they want is what is right, right now, regardless of what happened before or what they said before.
Now, it has been proven in the last couple of weeks that not all the Arab or Islamic countries and their leaders are hanging around the bloc. Some of them are embarrassed by the Israeli response, because that is what they do within their own countries when dealing with the politically impotent or bothersome. Others are embarrassed to be associated with Arafat and his human bombs.

This is a classic "if your're not for us, you're against us" case.

Regardless of your attitude toward Blair, Bush is being looked to to be either the messiah or the villain in this mess.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Blair may be a bit better informed than your average critic? Americans, in several threads on this site, are accused of being incapable of thinking globally. Yet, when Blair thinks globally, he is accused being an ersatz American... Double reverse thinking there.

The assassination of Sadat should have sent a little signal to the "peace-lovers" in the world. No matter how you set up your pieces in your little game, they are going to move the way they want in the real world. The Islamic extremists are not going to play any game but their own. They lose, we lose. We win, they win. It is a mindset, not a political policy.

To punish Israel because they got tired of it faster and responded harder than the rest of the world (except Turkey, but that's another story) is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Israel is a state. It will remain one until it isn't anymore.
It is a police state for the Palestinians. Practically anywhere the Palestinians live, from the US to Kuwait, they are watched and mistrusted. They are marked.

If the Palestinian intelligentsia have any sense, they will ally themselves with the Israelis against the rest of the world. They have so much in common that they would work well together. If they could find a common enemy.

To pray for peace is wonderful. To want everyone in the world to have the same kind of peace is to ignore diversity.

done ranting.

Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if people would stop being so sodding stupid and get things sorted out once and for all? Do they really enjoy fighting so much? Now, if you have a disagreement with a friend, it is so much better to talk things through than to hate each other - you wouldn't take a bat to their head or anything, now, would you? That's the way I see it, and the sooner Mr and Mrs Bush, and indeed everyone else involved in this conflict and any other, the better life would be.

Give a chance.

You are right, Two Bit - you could only police that place with consent. A UN force, or a Nato force, or whatever, could not succeed there unless the Israelis and Palestinians actually wanted it to, and the UN and Nato are in any case in no hurry to get involved on the ground.

The answer lies with the protaganists - the Israelis and Palestinians, sooner or later, are going to have to talk to each other, and reach some kind of accommodation, which will probably not be totally disimilar to what was on the table the last time they nearly agreed.

I fear that there will be much pain on both sides before that comes about, if ever, as I see no sign that the present leadership on either side is serious about reaching such a compromise. As long as there are sufficient people on both sides who think that a military solution can work there can be no political solution, and the only solution that could bring a lasting peace there is a political one.

Probably to your own chagrin........I enjoyed this rant.

You've said quite a bit of what I was thinking-that which was lurking behind the surface-here and I can't but agree.

The Palestinians have been asking for a UN force to police the borders for some time now. The opposition to such a force is mostly (entirely?) from the Israelis.

The UN are in much more of a hurry to get involved now that the USA aren't vetoing every single resolution that's remotely critical of Israel...

Tonsils, for what it's worth, I agree with most of what you say.
As to the matter of the Holy Tone, well, I assume he is way better informed than the other half of the partnership.
As to why we in the UK have a problem with him thinking globally is because the UK is quietly going to rat-sh*t while he globe trots.