h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Please post character witnesses against the banning of Silent Lucidity here.

OK,

Sticking to the salient point:
I cannot claim to have read everything posted by Silent Lucidity, but I have read what I have found.
That which I have read seems polite, rational and interesting.
I cannot see why any reasonable person should have taken offence.
That is my testimony.

(As an aside, the only justification for a suspension / ban would seem to be a falsified request for admission.
Barton's suggestion - #43 at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F79999&thread=152337&skip=40&show=20
may resolve any doubts in this regard.
If Arpeggio had been included in the otherwise general amnesty [taking into account the progress which has been made], you / we should, probably, not have had a decision to make.)

This is a request that everyone consider the possibility that Silent Lucidity has a reason for being here. Consider the possibility that when those reasons had been dealt with, Silent Lucidity would have quietly left.

Mourning Becomes Electra had more obvious reasons for being here, and left when those reasons had been dealt with.

This issue's too big for me. Going the logical route... If Silent Lucidity *isn't* LeKZ, then he/she certainly shouldn't be banned. That's pretty obvious. If Silent Lucidity is LeKZ in disguise, then by all the rules, then there is no choice but to ban her.

But:
If he/she is LeKZ in disguise... I don't want to see her (them!) banned. She's a remarkable, articulate individual with good things to say. She's managed to help many unhappy individuals on this site and others, and I will vouch for her strength of character and genuine desire to help.

I would propose that LeKZ is mentally handicapped. This is something that h2g2 is not equipped to deal with - mentally handicapped individuals don't exhibit any visual stigmata. As a result of that handicap, she allows herself to say things that she later regrets, and so finds it difficult to maintain any long-term membership on moderated sites. She's had remarkable success on the Topica website because of the ability to moderate herself - take back postings that she later realizes are over the line. Despite her mental handicap, (or maybe because of it!) she has a deep insight into trauma, domestic abuse, and how to deal with multiple-personality disorder. I would say she's more qualified to help those with these problems than somebody who has not experienced what she has.

I'd like to see h2g2 be able to handle schizophrenics and multiples; chat rooms are wonderful therapy tools. Rather like building a handicapped ramp for those poor folk in wheelchairs, no?

But that's another issue that I'm definitely not qualified to speak on. All I can do is give a character reference. She's a good person, and I would like to see her contributing to h2g2.

- Lentilla

> "I'd like to see h2g2 be able to handle ... multiples"

How unexpectedly generous of you...
-MyRedDice

*ahem*

Unaccustomed as I am to long posts about this stuff...

I am now pretty sure that Silent Lucidity is the same person (persons) as Arpeggio and Mourning Becomes Electra. I think we need to be clear that this is the case 'beyond reasonable doubt' for a ban of Silent Lucidty to be fair. I've never really chatted much with
LeKZ, because the threads in which she participtated seemed to long and spiky for fluffy me, and I'm mostly happy with the way the h2g2 eds run this site.

However, I as far as I know, Silent Lucidity hasn't broken any house rules, and Mourning Becomes Electra has shown herself to be a good and compassionate friend to Willem (The Unmentionable Marauding Pillowcase).

Arpeggio, as I recall, was suspended for one week for insulting another h2g2 user. After her one week ban, she returned and posted the infamous XXXd out message, which translated into a nasty rant about the editors. I believe she still maintains that the XXXd message was meaningless, but it was decoded by 3 separate individuals and the nasty rant was certainly there.

Maybe it was subconsious, maybe it was 'another person' within the multiple personality of this persons. But a multiple personality identity still must take responsibilty for thier actions. To say 'it wasn't me, it was my alter-ego' seems a cop-out to me. It was the
same fingers typing the message.

However,
>Despite her mental handicap, (or maybe because of it!) she has a deep insight into trauma, domestic abuse, and how to deal with multiple-personality disorder.

I agree with Lentilla on this point...

>I would say she's more qualified to help those with these problems than somebody who has not experienced what she has.

Though I'm less sure on this - can the blind lead the blind?? hmm. hmm, erm... But she has been a good friend to a good friend of mine, and that counts for something.

I'm posting in the DONT BAN thread, because I feel that the lifetime suspension is an overly harsh punishment for the transgressions of the rules. LeKZ was a fool to come back under false pretences, and it hasn't helped her cause, at all.

But just as I'm opposed to the death penalty I'm opposed to a permanent erasing of anyone from h2g2, except in more extreme cases than she/him/they being 'a difficult character'.

>I'd like to see h2g2 be able to handle schizophrenics and multiples; chat rooms are wonderful therapy tools.

I agree. I'd like to see the h2g2 community as a welcoming, forgiving and understanding one.

I think IF Lekz can stay away ON HER HONOUR for an agreed suspension period of say, six months, THEN apologies to the community for her deception (setting up the SL account) AND apologises to the editors for the XXX posting and causing *soooooooooooo* much unproductive and unpleasant hassle, then we should allow her back in June 2002.

(If she then broke the rules one more time, I'd have her kicked out for good.)

I say six months ban.

I agree with everything Purplejenny said, except for the bit about staying away from long and spiky fora, and the bit about being unaccustomed to long posts.

I believe that LeKZ is a good person(s), and that, on the conditions suggested by pj, she/they should be allowed back, with the understanding that further rule-breaking will result in a permanent ban.

I think that H2G2 has grown a bit since LeKZ was/were banned, and I am willing to take the chance that the problems which resulted in the earlier ban wouldn't be repeated, seeing as we're all older and wiser.

I know that LeKZ and H2G2 have a lot to offer each other, and it would be a shame to close that door *forever*.

GTBacchus, who likes his justice served with a healthy dose of mercy





Well, we're all older, anyway.

I'm thinking of creating a modest proposal of my own, entitled 'Parole', suggesting ways of dealing with lifetime bans, official warnings, and suspensions, after time has passed.

Ideas include official warnings and suspensions being removed from the record after X months of good behaviour, and banned persons being allowed to return after X months/years of good behaviour, with further conditions on both.

If people are interested, I'll go write that entry and invite people from comment. However, I do think that such a policy should be a proper policy, rather than a special case for a single researcher or researchers. Just MHO.

Sounds good Lu. Start an entry, give us a link, and let's discuss it there, instead of here.

From Post 12 of this thread, in a response to a question on whether a banned person could log in under a different e-mail identity: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F13393?thread=90750 "They could, but losing your entire history on h2g2 isn't nice. We find that life-banners often come back under a guise, but they behave themselves properly second time round, which is all we ever wanted them to do in the first place. :-)" - Mark Moxon As LeKZ lost her history, came back under another guise, and has not misbehaved, I would say that this is entirely consistent with Mr. Moxon's appraisal. If that's all we ever wanted, I have to wonder why she's been tracked down so quickly and selected for re-banning. The only reasons I can see why she's been tracked down so quickly are that she re-visited the long-dead issue, and that she is regarded as having done too much harm to ever return in any way. To these, I would say that the long-dead issue has never been dead, and as for her harm... her presence here once helped to save a life. That should count for something.

Just to add one further note here,

It is entirely a matter of point of view whether Arpeggio violated her ban.

If one chooses to assert that Arpeggio *is* LeKZ as the editors seem to have done then they are correct that no alter of LeKZ should be permitted to have an h2g2 account. After all, Arpeggio was banned for having permitted the posting of the X post which was deemed to have been interpretable as holding content that was utterly unforgiveable.

At one point, when discussing Arpeggio's one week suspension, one of the editors, I believe it was Peta, stated that no matter who had been rude, Arpeggio was responsible for the use of her account. And this was proper, if not necessarily the charge of rudeness. I don't recall any charge against LeKZ as a whole.

If, however, Arpeggio is *not* LeKZ as might be understood from the clinical definition of DID (multiple personality), then Silent Lucidity might well post from the same computer, using the same fingers, and not be in violation so long as he did not permit Arpeggio to use his account or report direct communications from her.

In this sense, and this sense only, I choose to write in support of Silent Lucidity, who has done no harm or broken any rules on h2g2 to the best of my knowledge. He has demonstrated concern and care, neither of which are crimes but which are admirable qualities. As far as I understand the situation, he is not even aware that he is part of LeKZ. If he should become aware, I still don't see that it would be a cause for his being banned.

He has written a wonderful and poetic story, "The Scream of the Wounded Seal" which goes a long way toward providing insight into the problems of violent spouse abuse. I expect that he could continue to do so, if he can ever overcome having been linked with LeKZ against whom there is clearly a great deal of animosity.

Barton

At the Risk of Sounding Dull and Old-fashioned, I think things like this can be dealt with the way they are in Real Life.

When somebody behaves badly in RL, we tend to ignore them until they go away or start behaving themselves.

I haven’t read all that Arpeggio/LekZ/Silent Lucidity has written, but I’ve read some. I can see how the h2g2 editors could feel aggrieved. But basically, an insult to an editor is no more or no less significant than an insult to any one of us: that’s what being a community should mean.

If we ban Arpeggio/LekZ/Silent Lucidity, he or she can simply drop in to an Internet cafe and log on as a newbie. And this can go on ad infinitum.

Call me an Old Hippy, but *banning* has significantly failed to stop most things, drugs, prostitution, the IRA, the ANC, gambling, alcohol (during prohibition in the US) to mention but a few.

Quite Frankly, life is too short to fight an endless battle. Besides, by participating in all this trouble and debate we may be giving one or all of Arpeggio/LekZ/Silent Lucidity’s many personalities exactly the attention they want.

In RL, if someone does something wrong, they apologise and are forgiven. If Arpeggio/LekZ/Silent Lucidity gravely insulted Peta or any of the editors (or, indeed, any of us researchers) then an apology is owed and should be given, and accepted.

If the *excuse* for the insulting or bad behaviour is *multiple personalities* then that doesn’t wash with me: we are ALL responsible for what we say and do.

If, as seems probable from a previous posting here, Arpeggio/LekZ/Silent Lucidity has apologised on another site then what’s wrong with an apology here? Then we can all decide whether we want to be bothered to talk to him/her/it under whatever disguise or name.

Let’s move on. There are many more interesting and valuable things to be done on h2g2. Eeyore.

Hiya, I'm new here. Lentilla and Barton and Col. Sellers said it beautifully. The various persona of the Lekz/Arpeggio system had so much to offer H2G2. A lifetime ban was extreme, maybe appropriate to a dangerous unreformable criminal, but not to Arpeggio who has so much talent, and so much to say, but is so damaged and troubled. The Italics should have left the door open, for example, giving them a 6 months ban and then another chance. The LeKZ people can moderate themselves if they truly want to, as anyone who has read the last few days at the "OtherPLeKZ" can corraborate. They should have had another chance.

As Barton said, Silent Lucidity is another persona, who doesn't know he's part of LeKZ, and has behaved. Also, I don't think that LeKZ knew that SL was back on H2G2.

LeKZ kept saying how they were "on their honour" to not "sneak" back onto H2G2 under another name. Some people are gleeful that they betrayed their honour: after all, they say that Arpeggio herself recognized that their different personalities shared the same body, and therefore are bound by the same rules. To that argument, I argue back that:

1. LeKZ did not know about SL (in LeKZ, most, but not all the personalities are aware of one another). and

2. (more important) the LeKZ people are only human, after all, like the rest of us. She/they missed H2G2 so much that they (unknowingly) broke their code of honour, like practically all of us do from time to time. They created SL to get back on. He didn't know, and they didn't know, its that simple. Poor LeKZ, its so sad. The staff of H2G2 should take it as a compliment that they were missed so much.

Hiya, I'm new here. Lentilla and Barton and Col. Sellers said it beautifully. The various persona of the Arpeggio system had so much to offer H2G2. A lifetime ban was extreme, maybe appropriate to a dangerous unreformable criminal, but not to Arpeggio who has so much talent, and so much to say, but is so damaged and troubled. The Italics should have left the door open, for example, giving them a 6 months ban and then another chance. The Arpeggio people can moderate themselves if they truly want to, as anyone who has read the last few days at the "Other Place" can corraborate. They should have had another chance.

As Barton said, Silent Lucidity is another persona, who doesn't know he's part of the Arpeggio system, and has behaved. Also, I don't think that Arpeggio & Co. knew that SL was back on H2G2.

Donna Quixote

Arpeggio & Co. kept saying how they were "on their honour" to not "sneak" back onto H2G2 under another name. Some people are gleeful that they betrayed their honour: after all, they say that Arpeggio herself recognized that their different personalities shared the same body, and therefore are bound by the same rules. To that argument, I argue back that:

1. Arpeggio & Co. did not know about SL (in the Arpeggio system, most, but not all the personalities are aware of one another). and

2. (more important) the Arpeggio & Co. people are only human, after all, like the rest of us. She/they missed H2G2 so much that they (unknowingly) broke their code of honour, like practically all of us do from time to time. They created SL to get back on. He didn't know, and they didn't know, its that simple. Poor Arpeggio & Others, its so sad. The staff of H2G2 should take it as a compliment that their site was missed so much.

Donna Quixote, I have to ask, are you another manifestation of LeKZ?

Ben

Ben,
No, I am not she who cannot be named. I am speaking in defense of Arpeggio & Co. over here because this is the "Don't ban SL" page.
You haven't heard from me before because I'm a new account. I am also an individual who thinks that you shouldn't speak unless you have something to say. Well, I don't have a lot to say, especially on a site like H2G2 which is so chock full of brilliant and witty wordsmiths.

Now that the Arpeggio system has so few defenders, this is a time to speak up, so I am.

Also, to reiterate what Lentilla said above, the Arpeggio system is a person with a handicap, so they should have had taken that into consideration during the "banning for life". like I said above, maybe a 6 month ban could have been more appropriate. but I guess its to late now. I'm sure the Italics meant well.

As Col. Sellers said, it should be Ok to come back under another account, especially since SL hasn't done anything wrong.

BTW, if anyone knows how Arpeggio and Co. are doing, please post a message on my user space, as I am very concerned, and can't do anything to help but pray.

Donna Quixote

*Guru-ing not character witnessing*

Donna, you have to update your space with an intro of some sort before anyone can post there.

Thanks for that disclaimer, Mina. I would have been pretty sure you were character witnessing if I hadn't read that first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A661097

Those into capital punishment need not apply...

Well, there is first of all the issue of whether Silent Lucidity, as Silent Lucidity, has ever done anything that warrants a ban. I have not yet read all of Silent Lucidity's posts here, but those I've read, have all been well within the House Rules. Silent Lucidity has always appeared to be sensitive, thoughtful, compassionate, and I have enjoyed reading his words ... he may have been a bit on the 'case' of one particular person, but I don't think that that warrants a lifetime ban, and that has indeed nowhere been mentioned as the grounds for the ban.

Then there's the issue of Silent Lucidity being 'LeKZ'. The people who believe Silent Lucidity is LeKZ, may call for the ban because of LeKZ having been banned. I would just like to say that irrespective of whether Silent Lucidity is LeKZ or not I think that ban was unnecessary. I think the whole idea of lifetime bans is going just a mite too far. And *even if* lifetime bans were warranted in some cases, LeKZ shouldn't have got one. They are good people. They saved my life, yes, but apart from that, I know them well, and love them dearly. They have problems, yes, but they need to be *helped*, not hurt. There is too much that is wonderful in them to allow the negativity in them to overrule our judgement.

Lucinda, I read that, and yes, it's a good idea, I may make some comments on it sometime.

Donna Quixote, when I hear something, I'll tell you.