h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I just can't beleive the Dalek Sec hybrid had an American accent

Well, it's widely said that Wagner embraced the Nazi ideal...the Daleks want to wipe out all non-Dalak species and the Nazis weren't shy of dabbling in a bit of genocide!

So, the ideal music in many ways.

The Dalek/Nazi thing isn't very subtle, is it?

'Twas a fun episode, I thought, despite the various logical oddnesses. I enjyed the Depression-style musical number as well, which was wonderfully in period.

"Adults discussing children's programmes! We're always going to miss the point..."

No! Quite apart from the immediate objections (does nobody listen when RTD patiently explains that New Who isn't a children's show? Does nobody actually look at how the adult/children audience ratio for this breaks down?) this is constantly reeled-out to explain away poor writing, poor acting and other unacceptable elements of the series. New Who is designed and written to fill the gap that previous fare such as "Star Trek TNG" and "Buffy" (another show lumbered with the juvenile tag) and therefore it's for children in the sense that children are conciously considered as part of the audience but it's also conciously written for the over-16s as well and thus, to be considred a success, must satisfy both. If we grown-up fans are disappointed at a cliffhanger then that's as much a failure as if ten-year-old fans are bored with the monsters. Both matter! This show is conciously written with a wide-audience in mind (indeed, RTD has been criticised for his soap-opera elements to keep non sci-fi fans watching) and it knows it needs to satisfy all of them to remain on-air. Of course children watching matter, but it's damaging to the quality of the show to pretend that only they matter (especially considering they only make up 2-3m of the overall viewing figures) and that if anyone else is disappointed they should make allowances.

Despite what RTD says, Dr Who *is* a childrens' programme. The amount of adults that watch it is incidental: a lot of young people watch Last Of The Summer Wine but it's still a programme for the retired.

There's nothing wrong with being a childrens' programme and, as a child, Saturday's conclusion would have scared the wotsit out of me (just as the Scaroth did a couple of decades ago).

Correction: and, *if I were still a child*...

Ahem.

"Despite what RTD says, Dr Who *is* a childrens' programme. The amount of adults that watch it is incidental: a lot of young people watch Last Of The Summer Wine but it's still a programme for the retired."

If LATSW has a substantial number of child-viewers then it is a "children's programme" alongside a programme "for the retired"

"There's nothing wrong with being a childrens' programme..."

I agree. The original was a children's programme (or at least the BBC considered it one, the audience and the scriptwriters suggested otherwise) but the production team don't consider the current series one and the majority of those watching are over 16. I really don't understand what it has to do in order to shake-off the tag some people are so keen to put on it. If it's being conciously written and marketed-at a "family" audience (ie adults and children) and both age groups watch it (indeed, adults are the majority of its viewers) then it can't simply be considered a "children's show" in the way something like "Tellytubbies" or "The Queen's Nose" is.

And, as I've said, the tag matters because it causes people to give it a get-out-clause if there's a dip in quality. "Who cares if I was disappointed and the script was terrible? My children loved it!". That is, to put it bluntly, an entirely wrong and damaging attitude to take towards such a programme. Yes, of course the children's opinion matter (this is a "kids' show" in the sense that they're a considered part of the target audience and since most people refer to it in those terms I've no problem with it) but *your* opinion matters too and if you think it doesn't then you'll ultimately get the television you deserve.

I tend to keep my mouth shut on this subject because generally I don't care but I constantly hear it come up as a get-out-clause for bad writing, bad acting or (here) a poor cliffhanger and I think that demonstrates that it's more than just a harmless piece of recieved-opinion. I also think that the poor and simplistic quality of some episodes of Series Two was due to the production team conciously trying to make the series more appealing to the under-16s (whose enthusiasm for it after series one had surprised them a bit, by all accounts) and this seems to be something they're tempered a bit this series.

I just saw a picture of the human dalek, looked like something from The Mighty Boosh.

So that's what Noel looks like without the makeup!

If you've seen Genesis of the Daleks you'll know that the Kaleds were a very Nazi like race.

all this 'i will destroy whatever/whoever is not one of us' has gone on since biblical times and beyond... but i agree that the daleks must be nazi inspired... if you think about how the german accent is parodied its not too far away from dalek speak, and i'm talking parodied not genuine german accent.. i went to germany and austria recently and very polite pleasant people...

is it true that tennant is not leaving now?? my hubby works with a guy whose nephew is directly involved with the programme, and he seems to think tennant may stay???

also read in a local paper that cardiff has become a very popular short break destination mainly due to dr who and torchwood...if you come just be careful when you eat a takeaway at caroline street.. dodgy offerings there....

Sentences start with capital letters.

If you're dyslexic I apologise.

No, no Roymondo, they have to learn!

I just hope, JozCoz, that you're not being confused by 'Allo Allo'.

Guy Siner is not a nazi!

>> does nobody listen when RTD patiently explains that New Who isn't a children's show?<<

Er... once again, that's not what he's saying though. Doctor Who is a *family* show that has to appeal to seven-to-14s - or 'children'.

>> I agree. The original was a children's programme (or at least the BBC considered it one, the audience and the scriptwriters suggested otherwise) but the production team don't consider the current series one and the majority of those watching are over 16. <<

Every single interview with RTD, Phil and Julie would seem to contradict that - they're constantly talking about the show as being aimed at children, but with a mind that it has to entertain the adults (not the other way round). Of *course* it tries to appeal to both - that's what good family entertainment does. The 'majority' of viewers are bound to be over 16 because the majority of the viewing population is. Butchildren still account for about a quarter-to-a-third of those viewers - up to about two million of them. That's more than Blue Peter! A large proportion of viewers are actually over 30 - and many have kids of their own.

Conversely, the original production team knew they had a healthy child audience watching, but they *didn't* consider it a children's show - ever. Not once. There *wasn't* a children's drama department when Who first started anyway, but it was, like the current version, a show for the whole family.

The problem with trying to assume it's an either/or situation is, you miss out on so much of what's actually going on behind the scenes. Sarah Jane is a children's show, specifically designed for a child audience. Torchwood is specifically designed to only be watched by adults. Doctor Who's remit is to appeal to children, teens, young adults and parents. The whole family.

>> is it true that tennant is not leaving now? <<

He never was - or at least, at no point did he say he was. Because of the way Eccleston did just one series, virtually from the moment he started in the role, Tennant has been asked 'when are you leaving?' to the point where he just stopped answering the question for a while. Tabloids know that Doctor Who gets people reading and secures them publicity if they break a story, so the absense of a denial is spun to be a confirmation. It's a non-story, really.

If he is leaving, I'd be surprised if they would try the same trick twice as David has his own fans now and it would break the hearts of so many of his younger fans. They'd have a press conference lined up.

I don't know what it is, but I suspect the big shock ending this year with be something brand new... which is scary for anyone who might think they've seen it all

They said on Confidential that "it's still a childrens show" though...

Regardless of who it's aimed at, Dr Who is great. I would enjoy if more if I were a kid but I enjoy it regardless.

BTW: it's a programme, not a show. Britain's not officially an American state yet! I apologise if I erroneously used the word 'show' previously.

Gah - pedant

I've been having to write up about 300 old programmes in my new job and swapping between 'programme', 'show' and 'production' all the time. If you're telling me one of these is unacceptable, that means I need to rewrite about 150 of them

Pedant? Well, possibly...

It's OK, I'll let you off. Just go say saying 'season' instead of 'series' and it'll be fine.