h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi everyone,

this is a very, very rough draft intended to serve the new Anti-War collective on h2g2. I hope to improve the wording and make this a kind of statement of pacifism to which people can sign up...

Help please!

Jen

Just a swiftie - it might be worth adding the names of the Researchers for Peace to the 'researched and written by' button when you edit the entry.

Love

Ben
(wearing her purple docs)

Hi Jen!

Here are some peace related links (only one of which is a shameless plug for an entry I wrote!):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A583021 - Pacifism
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A630604 - War - The Card Game
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A600085 - The Ultimate Martial Art

Thanks for putting this page together!


Oh, and here's a good peace quote: "There was never a good war, or a bad peace." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)


GTB

I think that this is so cool, a place 4 the 21st century hipies to hang out and promote peace. at least we are certain of our message, unlike bush and all the evil war wanting people out there, its driving me mad. we want peace we need peace and now

Thanks for your comments people.

I intend to publicise this further now, elicit more comments, and then finalise a version later tonite. I think that the page should remain reasonably brief and simple. A short statement of intent, a few quotes from Franklin, Ghandi and so on, and then links to a list of researchers who have signed up and links to pages about peace, politics, prayer and suchlike within and outside of the guide.

I intend to do a 'final(ish') version by midnightish GMT tonite, so that peeps can sign up to the text safe assured that the text will not be edited afterwards. Its also likely that this weeks post will link to us.

So - what should the text say? Whats your favourite peace quote? Any particularly good pics in the library? And how realistic will it be to try to keep a page updated of researcher names - could this be done in a simple way?

And - what do we start doing once we get together? Demos/ petition/ letter writing /culture jamming / dancing / wearing flowers in our hair?

And are there any more Questions???

thanks for your help - more is very welcome

Peace and love

purplejenny

What I would like to do is to write articles, and even books, and speak to children, or to groups of people. Communicate - learn and teach. Encourage people to understand.

By the way ... is it necessary to be a total pacifist to be a member of this group? I believe in peace but not 'absolutely'. I believe a little bit of fighting can be a good thing. I think the current situation in the world is a giant ballzup though and I think the way the big bosses think of solving things will only make it a bigger one.

well, good question. I'm personally for peace and against war. The terrorist attacks on the states were crimes, and to make retalitatory indiscriminate bombings in response to them would also be a crime.

I can think of a few occasions in which war has/would be justified. For example, the war against Hitler - a 'rougue state' that defied international law, national boundaries and international treaties. But I don't think that there are any current conflicts that are really going to reach a resolution through warfare.

And war is the worst thing humans can do. The use of force, I fear, will be necessary to maintain peace and prevent crime, but in my opinion this should ALWAYS and ONLY be done with the agreement of the United Nations and within the bounds of international law.

Like I said, I'm going to leave this open for another 2 hours or so tonite, and then revise the entry.

Then I'll leave it till tomorrow evening and do a final, final, final version then... so please keep comments coming people...

Jen

Hi Jenny

Can I point you towards my few words for Zero Intolerance, please? http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A593796 points to a response I originally wrote to tell someone I would never willingly insult someone on grounds of race, colour, creed, or other category. I'd be honoured if you would use it for this!

x x Fenny

Global Tribunal, or World Court --- Yes

Another Bloody War --- No

purplejenny,

Awesome. Your wording is clear and difficult to imagine anyone disagreeing with. I'm going to put links to this from Zaphodista pages and some other discussion fora.

Don't worry about maintaining peoples' names on the page too strictly. Tell them you'll update it when you get a chance, and people won't get too angry with you. I second the motion that member names be added to the author list for the page, if only because it makes such an annoying but startling visual, to see dozens of names when you're only used to seeing one.

"is it necessary to be a total pacifist to be a member of this group?"

I can't speak for this group, but I don't see why a person would bother calling hirself a pacifist if s/he felt there were a lot of exceptions to the idea of non-violence. I wouldn't suggest excluding anyone from a group, but I'm going to do a lot of preaching for non-violence. Lots and lots of Gandhi.

The problem is that states and individuals can only teach non-violence by demonstrating it and living it. For example, the day after the Columbine massacre in the U.S., Clinton gave a speech at a school where he tried to preach non-violence. Later that night, he ordered military actions (can't remember if it was Kosovo or Iraq, sorta all blends together, dunnit?)

Anyhow, debating this can only be a good thing. So let's talk about it, if you want to.

Purplejenny, in your post you say use of force should only be used with the UN's agreement. The trouble with that is the UN's a far from ideal forum for determining whether a war is just or not because Great Britain, France, Russia, the USA and China have a veto on the Security Council. If, for example, China decided to invade Taiwan tomorrow, the UN wouldn't be able to sanction a military response by any other nation.

Good point, Mycroft. War that is sanctioned by the UN just means that a lot of people believe the war is justified. That's like saying that we must stamp out racism, except in those instances where racism is deemed necessary by the UN. Pacifism with exceptions is hardly pacifism.

An eye for an eye* and the whole world will be blinded.

small print:
*This aphorism not applicable for eyes deemed worthy of removal by United Nations. Brought to you by MKGandhi Corp. (Formerly "I Can't Believe It's Not Pacifism!")

Mornin' all...

In the interests of inner house peace and harmony I had to let someone else use the ISP for once last nite - and now I have to go to work. I get your point about the UN, but also want to allow for some kind of 'justified force' to keep the peace - which is a tricky dilemma. I'll ponder this today and hope you will post more commments amd thoughts. I'll be back online this evening (UK time).

Ta

Jen

Is it necessary to be a total pacifict to belong to this group?

I hope not, because if it is, then I cannot be a member. I read Jenny's first draft carefully, and felt it was something I could sign.

I have no idea if I am against all wars. How can I know? I cannot imagine all the circumstances in which I could be provoked to fight.

I am very clear I am against this one - which is by definition unwinnable. It remains to be seen how much we will all lose.

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a partial-pacifist called Ben

I say that prospective members should read the page, then choose whether or not the wish to sign. Anyone looking for a group of people who share his/her *exact* same ideals is on a fool's errand (and I know something about fools, if you've read my user space). No two people interpret the same concept identically, and therefore no group can have a total consensus. If you feel like supporting the cause of peace, join! If you feel that a stronger stance against violence is needed (as Subcom seems to -- and as I do) by all means join this and some other group that advocates total non-violence as well. If you feel that while this group's doctrine may be a bit of a blanket statement and that nothing, not even peace, should be absolute that's fine. As long as you feel comfortable including yourself, do so.

Of course, I didn't right the page, but from purplejenny's postings she doesn't seem to be an elitist who wishes to keep only a select few in the group. I think that the important thing is to show our support for peace at *this* time. If a different war comes up, all you in favor of it may resign at that time, as far as I am concerned.

Again, for all I know purplejenny may have some radical idea of mandatory lifetime membership, but she doesn't seem to be leaning that way.

I didn't sign this when I first read it, because I have mixed feelings as to whether a war can bring an end to terrorism. I don't think it can be stopped without resorting to violence. A couple of days ago I was optimistically thinking that maybe if the governments of the world decided to use their resources wisely and carefully together they probably could bring an end to terrorism by making it too costly for anyone to support terrorism. I guess I'm still hoping they can work together and do that, and I hope that it doesn't have to be in the form of a war. Somehow it seems as if that's like trying to kill mosquitos with a sledgehammer... once the momentum has built up it's going to smash everything in its path, but the mosquitos will usually fly safely away and bite somewhere else.

*sigh* Wish I could come up with an answer that made sense to me, at least, but it's too complex. Meanwhile I'll do my best to conciously avoid violence of all sorts, in thoughts, words and actions, and try to promote that type of thinking in my interactions with others. It's something I've always believed in, but sometimes I've let that basic value be overruled by frustration or anger. Time to try harder, especially now when every little bit of human decency matters so much.

If everyone in the world just tried to keep that in mind we wouldn't have this problem

I believe in avoiding the occasion for violence as much as possible. But when it has to be done, it has to be done. When some person threatens my life immediately and directly and violence against that person is the only way to remove the threat, then I will use violence. The same if someone else's life is threatened, and I am in a position to do something about it.

I will do absolutely everything I can though to try and assure that nobody ever has a reason for threatening my or other people's lives, and for avoiding situations where my own or other people's lives are threatened. I will also do absolutely everything I can to ensure that, if I ever use violence, the negative consequences of that violence are put right again afterwards. If I have to hurt somebody in a fight, if it is the only means by which I can stop the fight, I will try and help that person get better afterwards ... physically and also psychologically.

The current governments of the worlds are not serious enough about avoiding the occasion for violence. They allow horrible situations to develop and to get worse without doing anything about them until they become so bad that terrible violence results. Also, when they try and solve a problem by violence, they do not stay around and repair all the damage that was caused, but leave a lot of hurt and wrong that then leads to more violence, often worse than the initial violence.