h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Nerius;
Good job on 1558 I think God has a tremendous sense of humor, and regularly drags a piece of cheese across the floor of the maze in the wrong direction, laughing and saying at the same time (because he can do two or more things at once, y'know) "That ought to screw 'em up for a little while"!

Chicken and Egg
Following Hoos response, now apply to the main question God fact or fiction
First define what you mean by God???
If you can't define God you can't answer the main question perhaps.
Also what is a myth?

Jordan why does it have to be a chicken egg, (I've just had this conversation with my son)
HE says "Because every 'knows' it's a chickens egg .
I tell him this is just an assumption.
Where in the question is the evidence that everyone knows what sort of an egg it is?
Here's another lateral thought
Which came first the chicken or the egg.
The answer is 'Chicken,' since obviously it's first in the actual question.
All answers are correct ???!!!even those that are the opposite of each other.
It all depends on the way you look at things.
Here's something else I'm arguing over with son.
He says no man on the moon , He says that outside the iospehre (sp?) radiation is so strong that man could not survive without a lead lining so thick we can't escape gravity.
He says with current technology we're all stuck here.
Is he right?
And then the arguement about evolution, but I won't go there yet
Kids !!

'How to Serve Man', by Damon Knight. Remarkably porcine appearing aliens arrive, with technological marvels, and invite humans to travel to their world, offering all sorts of inducements. The viewpoint character is very suspicious of them, and all they say in response, is, "We only want to Serve Man". (BTW, I wouldn't fall for it, anyone who uses 'man' as a generic term for the human race, *immediately* gets my back up, be they libertarian or fundamentalist!) As I say, the viewpoint character is suspicious, a and gets hold of a book the aliens always carry and somehow gets it translated. The story ends with him rushing to the airport where his best friend and a whole bunch of other people are going up the gangplank to board the alien ship to go to their and live happily ever after. Just seconds too late, the viewpoint character yells at his friend, as he waves the book.."Jerry, don't go! This book, 'How to Serve Man' - it's a cookbook!" (Brilliant story!)

Jordan, I am intrigued, that you seem to be taking telepathy for granted as a concept. (I agree with you, BTW). But your matter-of-fact tone implies that your experience of it has been much more definite than mine, which is pretty vague.
I have been assuming that you, like Insight/David are JW. I thought they were as down on evolution as the Open Brethren I came out from amongst. (Shocking grammar there!
Are my assumptions correct?

I think your son is right - it's obviously a chicken egg, because /everyone knows/ it's a chicken egg. I am sure that the original question was posed with the intent that the listener would hear 'chicken egg'. It's just one of those interesting questions, like 'who found out about milk, and what on Earth was he doing at the time?!?' If it's not a chicken egg, the question becomes a riddle - it relies on subtlety of meanings rather than truth.

Della: nope, I'm LDS, but I almost became a Witness. So, nearly right. However, because I can manufacture data, I'll give you 100% anyway.

So you agree that telepathy and language (be it signed, written, vocalised or unconsciously transmitted through pheremones or posture) are hugely similar - possibly identical? Well, thanks - agreement is always a nice thing. I wonder if anyone has alternative views on the subject.

Being a child is great. Remember: childhood is not an age, it's a life decision! I am proud to be a child. It's a lot more fun than being an adult. I can do anything that an adult can do, only better - because we don't need to streamline ourselves so much that we turn life into a nasty, knotted string running through time.

Remember when you wanted to change the world, Hasslefree? Or when you wished people would listen to their kids, because they had ideas too? And do you konw why people change? They think they have maturity, or experience, and that children don't have them - when in truth, all we don't have is knowledge. Your son can learn without growing up, I'm sure.

(And I also get to use cool analogies! )

- Jordan

I have to agree with Jordan, on the not embracing maturity just to embrace maturity. However, the chicken and egg discussion would be better if you added a little heat; is fire good or bad? This, too, can go back and forth, but at least there is a chance someone may cross over to the other side of the discussion before someone passes over into the afterlife
diversity

"I think your son is right - it's obviously a chicken egg, because /everyone knows/ it's a chicken egg." Jordan quote

I think this stance is really interesting and implies all sorts of things.
The bit that is interesting is the 'everyone knows'.
As Hoo says; 'first define the chicken,' but what about 'first define the egg.'
If everyone 'knows' something, without evidence then it becomes an accepted 'given'?
We can't see either chicken or egg, so resort to a mental 'picture' and base our decisions on that.
Is that mental picture real?
Is this the difference in thinking patterns, because when I first heard the question, I didn't 'know', in an assuming way, what kind of egg it was.
So Jordans' idea that 'everyone knows' is also incorrect, but the majority know is closer to the truth.
Thinking all this through, I'm still referring the puzzle that is the existance of God.

Welcome Nerius !

What an interesting question.

So you propose that it is easier to find faith than it is to find God (or gods in my odd case)? Thus contending that faith is the state of having not met God, yet expecting to one fine day?

Then what is the state of having met God, or gods, and having an ongoing relationship with him/her/them? Schizophrenia perhaps?

This is why I distrust the term 'faith'. That and having suffered Catholic schooling where the term 'faith' was an excuse by my teachers/priests for not knowing the answer (i.e. "You must have faith my son". To which I famously replied "Really? Where is she then?". That cost me a whacking).

Personally I don't need faith. I rely instead on my experience of the divine nature of being, and my relationship with various gods and spirits.

Your reaction to that last statement may place you into one of three camps:
1. Polite rationalism - "Really? How nice.... Nurse! More medication over here immediately, he's trying to alter consensus reality again".
2. Abrahamic reactionary - "Blasphemer! Heretic! Father forgive him and keep passing the faggots Mick, he's going to get free if we don't light this quick!".
3. Spiritual realism - "Explain, and show your workings Mr.Matholwch, your very soul depends on your answers".

Enjoy the discussion .

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Hi Della,

"Bod, I understand that famine exists because of a lack of political will to solve the problem - it's not a lack of resources, but a lack of *distribution' of resources"

Yes, you are right. It is the case, however, that "The EF [Ecological Footprint] of the world average consumer in 1999 was 2.3 hectares per person, or 20% above the earth’s biological capacity of 1.90 hectares per person. In other words, humanity now exceeds the planet’s capacity to sustain its consumption of renewable resources" (WWF Living Planet Report 2002)

Further, it has been reported that aid agencies have estimated the planet's capacity for sustaining the human population at 10 billion. At present we 'only' have six billion, but the structure of that population is such that stabilisation would be at about 12 billion (there are a variety of forecasts).

So my conclusion is that:

At present, (more) equal distribution of resources would certainly satisfy everybody's needs; but

we still need to be conscious that population growth and excessive consumption are genuine problems that, even with a fair world, we would still need to address.

Cheerz,

Bod

Hi Hasslefree,

"Which was first? The chicken or the egg?"

If you accept the theory of Darwinian evolution, then the egg was first; for at some stage, two creatures who were not quite chickens, genetically speaking, mated to produce a chicken egg.

If you accept Lamarckian evolution, then the chicken was first; for at some stage a living creature behaved in such a way that its body adapted to become a chicken.

If you accept a creation story such as that in the Christian Bible then the chicken came first. Who would keep the egg warm otherwise?

Hi Alji

"Jordan, we know that eggs came first because birds were not the first to lay eggs. Why does the method of creation matter when so much of the story is false. If you want to believe that God created the universe in seven days, that's OK by me, but please explain why He left so many false clues?"

Six days mate. He screwed up so badly on day six, with those human pests, that he gave up after that...

Bod the Misanthropist (just for today...)

In post 612, Alji gave us the excellent Native American 10 commandments, which included:

"Enjoy life's journey, but leave no tracks"

I just came across a very similar teaching;

"The world is a bridge, so pass over it, and do not build upon it."

This is a saying attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, but interestingly from the Muslim tradition not the Christian tradition.

"The world is a bridge, so pass over it, and do not build upon it."

So I'm asking ; from where to where is this bridge?
and I'm thinking this means that the world is an illusion between two different states of consciousness and the advice about building is; do not set so much store in building and storing up treasure whilst you're journeying in the world because nothing is real.
There will always be enough food for everybody, if equally shared.
If a time ever comes when there appears to be insufficient, nature will solve the problem if we leave her alone to get on with it and don't store up our cupboards in fear of famine, so that some go without.

>So you agree that telepathy and language (be it signed, written, vocalised or unconsciously transmitted through pheremones or posture) are hugely similar - possibly identical?

Having experienced telepathy the answer is NO! It can be like watching TV or listening to a radio, just a feeling or saying something which someone else is thinking.

How to become aware of ESP.

Think of your brain as a AM/FM radio. Imagine all your concious thoughts are in the AM region and your sub-concious, in the FM region. Imagine that you can switch off the AM and listen to the FM.

Your body produces quite a lot of noise in your brain but by total relaxation you can reduce this to a minimum.

Your mind is in constant flux producing all sorts of thoughts. So the first thing you need to do is 'Stop Thinking'(switching off the AM).

How do you stop thinking? When I say stop thinking, I am talking about some specific areas of the brain. The speach area, the visual cortex and the hearing centre.

When you are able to control these you may become aware of thoughts other than your own.


Alji

(thinks - I must lean to spell)!

What do I think of when you say God? LIFE!

What do I see when you say God? Life!

What do I thinl of when you say faith? The first thing or I should say person who came to mind was Faith Brown. http://www.geocities.com/faithbrowns/


Alji

Hi Bod .

That reminds me of a little ditty I learnt in the back row of Sunday School:

"The earth was built in six days, and finished on the seventh.
According to the contract it should've been the eleventh.
But the carpenters got drunk, and the masons would work.
So the cheapest thing to do was fill it up with dirt".

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

that is very fasenating good ryme

Could somebody tell me what is going on here.!!! I'm kind of lost as this has been going on forever. Is God real or is he not?
Be happy.

Hi Semaj

Well it's like this...

If we define God as Gooosbump (post 1505) then we might have to conclude that (s)he doesn't exist due to the Problem of Evil (post 559). Furthermore is the Emperor's clothes / Schrodinger's Dragon view (post 970) that God doesn't exist or we would have seen Him.

This leaves open certain alternatives, for example ...

(1) God exists not as a personal God but rather as the concept of Godhead (post 1185)

(2) There is not a single omnipotent God, but rather a range of gods who offer guidance (post 771)

Insight stuck to the view that God exists because he has proof (the proof being that the Bible says so).

Hasslefree offered the view that truth is in the eye of the beholder.

And there's much more.

And the debate runs on.

Bod

... and I forgot to mention that god showed up at post 1457 to answer the question ...